Comments on: School Shooting Chardon, Ohio, And Other Tragedy

By: SundogA

SundogA — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 02:20:23 +0000

In some circumstances, Azkyroth, yes. Probably not in the vast majority, given the feedback I’ve received.

By: Azkyroth

Azkyroth — Wed, 29 Feb 2012 01:36:14 +0000

But for the “victim”? I believe in no afterlife, nor reincarnation, but I can honestly see situations, emotional, physical or intellectual, where the ending of the situation is a superior outcome to trying to live through it, even at the cost of the ending of life.

…you really think a high school student is qualified to make that kind of call? Especially one who, whatever’s going on, isn’t hospitalized?

By: Member X

Member X — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:46:10 +0000

Damn. My sympathies to your daughter, Doc.

By: maureen.brian

maureen.brian — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:23:36 +0000

Another hug for your daughter, Greg, and I’m so glad that you are acknowledging that she’s entitled to grieve and have her grief taken very seriously indeed. Love to you both.

By: resident_alien

resident_alien — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:38:52 +0000

The father of the perpetrator of the Erfurt school shooting in Germany was actually put on trial (and,if memory serves right,convicted…)as an accessory to murder (or was it manslaughter?),because not only had he attempted to “cheer up” his clinically depressed son by reguarly taking him to the shooting range,he left one of his guns (he had a collection,which in Germany is,how shall I say,rare and strange)loaded and unsecured in his bedroom.This was the gun the son used to murder a teacher and 15 students (almost all female,by the way,a fact that the media conveniently dropped under the table).
German law says that any legally owned gun must be kept seperate from the ammunition,both locked in individual safes/steel vaults,the key or combination to which must be possessed ONLY by the legal owner of the gun(s).So even if the accessory charges didn’t stick (too lazy to google right now),he in all likelyhood was still convicted seperate charges of violating the
Schusswaffengesetz (firearm law),

By: sundoga

sundoga — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:38:04 +0000

Thank you Greg, Brownian. My own experiences have been more with adults…and I wouldn’t exactly call my own upbringing “normal”.

By: WMDKitty

WMDKitty — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 03:40:39 +0000

*hugs Greg*

Pass the hug on to your daughter for me, please?

By: Cynthia

Cynthia — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 02:34:09 +0000

Oh, your poor kid! That’s just awful for everyone involved. Burying your friends is one of the worst things I remember from my teen years.

I can’t offer any platitudes to make her feel any better and I’m sorry for it. It’s the one thing I kinda miss about religion, the ability to offer meaningless blather that the dead one has ‘gone on to a better place’. Instead, I will only offer my sympathies.

By: Brownian

Brownian — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 02:00:07 +0000

Had they not had access to the gun, they would have gotten past that period of their life and been OK.

This is likely true in the majority of cases—the proportion of multiple-method or complex suicides, wherein the victim uses multiple methods such as swallowing pills before hanging themself, is relatively small.

I know people who work in this area (I’m in public health), and I’m led to believe most suicide attempts are preventable if the individual can be caught in time. I’ve heard of suicide attempts being derailed because the potential victim ran into an old acquaintance on the way to the bridge.

In other words, you’re far more likely to be correct if you assume that the suicide attempt is a temporary cry for help than if you assume it’s the only solution to an intolerable situation.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Tue, 28 Feb 2012 01:51:53 +0000

I have the answer, if I correctly understand your question.

Many people go though a period of what might be categorized as depression when young, some contemplate suicide, some attempt it. Among those who do this but fail at the attempt, the depression goes away, often but not always with some sort of help, and they’re essentially fine after that. However, for those who attempt suicide with a gun, between 80 and 90 percent succeed. Had they not had access to the gun, they would have gotten past that period of their life and been OK.

So most of these suicides, of young folk, are tragedies. So many so that the appropriate number to use is, I would say, 100%.