I meant censored.

Thank you Greg. I didn’t think it was being sensored but you never know.

I have still do not see my reply posted from an hour ago?

Sorry for the delayed reply I rented a movie last night called Rise of the Planet of the Apes (2011) so I could get a better understanding of my relatives. I am glad to say that at the end of the movie the main ape named Caesar did speak so I AM NOW A BELIEVER. I thought the ending was a little weak but it allows of course for a sequel. I will give it two thumbs up in case you were wondering.

I was raised in a very normal Christian family. In fact I had numerous friends that said they wished his/her parents were both like mine in that they were involved in my extracurricular activities such as sports, cub scouts then boy scouts, camping, fishing and last of all were still married after 51 years until one passed away. A good percentage of my friends had divorced parents who I believe did not understand that a marriage does not come easy and that you have to work at it so it will flourish and succeed. I know this as I have now been married 12 years myself. I also believe that due to there lack of faith this was actually one of the areas that could have helped them though the tough times. Funny thing is their parents are now religious people and happily remarried and still together.

In regards to me being unintelligent or just following my parents, I have a B.S. in Economics and decided after my graduation it was time to make money and not spend more (on school that is). I am currently Director of Sales and Operations for a large company based in MN. You are correct that my childhood was based on following my parent’s beliefs but in college I changed and even started voting for non-conservatives and decided I would find out for myself. Irregardless (I figure if Tony can quote Wikipedia so can I for the word irregardless as Wikipedia must be the holy grail of knowledge) of my college days and thoughts when I was in my thirties, got married and had my first child I said there has to me more to life than this blink of an eye time we are on this planet. I started attending several churches until I found one where I felt at home and they had the answers I was looking for about life, happiness, honesty, marriage, compassion, and freedom. Now in no way am I saying that if you are not a conservative you can not be all those things but I do believe you are more likely to follow them if you are a chirstian.

Similar to Global Warming vs. Global Cooling and Evolution vs. Creationism there will be just as many people on the opposing sides with FACTS to back it up. Whether you say you say your FACTS are better than mine I really do not care to be honest. Here is a listing of a few Creation sites with plenty of ammo.

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
http://www.vedicsciences.net/articles/darwin-debunked.html
http://www.michaelfitzcharles.com/index_015.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100516105331AAan1s5
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=2236
http://www.vjsingh.info/evorel.html
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/science-technology/22679-officially-debunking-evolution-without-mentioning-god.html
http://www.remnantofgod.org/creation.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUpxHwLxmq8
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/printthread.php?threadid=222418

On a positive note glad to see your biggest advertiser is http://www.MNforMarriage.com. Glad to see your blog has decided money is more important than your beliefs. Bravo!

Never mind that evolution and creationism aren’t on opposite sides (again the former is about the diversity of life, while the latter is about the origin of life), there are a *lot* of creation stories among the world religions (remember, christianity isn’t the only religion that currently exists; nor is it the only religion practiced by Americans).

I agree entirely with you that it’s not a two-sided coin; you demonstrate this with the second part. I’m not sure I agree with you on evolution and the Christian Creation story: Both discuss origins. In Genesis much space is given to what order God made various forms of life … and there’s no real explanation of how God did it. It’s an argument whose subtlety is lost on most Creationists.

Dan-o, I suspect you’ve been told many times, by people who know even more about it than I do, all the myriad ways in which what you wrote is wrong. Even just now, Tony explained that Creationism (and Intelligent Design) are religious beliefs; they’re based on ancient stories made up by shepherds. Contrary to what you write, there’s no evidence whatsoever to back them up.

“The first belief of evolution is that, once upon a time, chemicals came together to form a living cell.” is a vast oversimplification that shows how much you don’t know about what scientists investigating abiogenesis are thinking.

“The second belief of evolution is that this first living cell then evolved into all of the life forms that we have on earth today.” is another glossing-over of what evolution really is. If that passes for a summary for you, then you don’t understand what the theory of evolution holds.

You wrote about indoctrination. It seems to me that you’d prefer it if, at government expense, children in public schools were indoctrinated into your specific kind of Christian belief. That means they should be taught what the Bible says and accept it without asking for evidence. You seem to want kids to be just as ignorant as you are about biology, abiogenesis, and evolution.

It strikes me that I’m being unfair in characterizing you as ignorant. Perhaps you do understand these subjects better than you let on. In that case, you’re deliberately and skillfully misrepresenting the theories and evidence. You’re also hoping no one notices that you have made some outrageous claims about what science doesn’t know, hoping that people will just accept what you’re saying on some kind of authority.

But since you either don’t understand the science or willfully lie about it, you are in no position to make any statements about it. Do you think Jesus is proud of the way you’re lying on his behalf?

Poe’s get better and better. You almost had me.

Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology (see doctrine).[1] It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.

-the above is wikipedia’s definition of indoctrination. Your comments display a lack of awareness of what the word means. Religious beliefs are inculcated in children. After all, for a large number of Americans, their children go to church practically from birth. This is done at a young age before children develop the critical thinking skills to question the falsehoods religions treat as true. Religious beliefs involve indoctrination.

They are taught that evolution is a fact, and they are not allowed to be taught any opposing viewpoints such as creation science or intelligent design.

-As evolution is a scientific fact, it makes perfect sense to teach evolution in school. Creationism (which is the same thing as ID, just repackaged and renamed) is *not* scientific. It’s a religious belief. You cannot teach a religious belief in science classes in US public schools. As I’ve already mentioned, that’s a violation of the First Amendment. Perhaps you haven’t read the Constitution of the United States recently. I recommend doing so, as it may clear up some of your misconceptions.
Also, as I’ve said, creationism is NOT an opposing view to evolution. Evolution deals in the diversity of life on the planet. Diversity does not mean ‘origin’. Creationism deals with the origin of life through the wholly unscientific claim ‘god did it’.

This kind of indoctrination might be OK if evolution were true and supported by the scientific facts. However, the facts of science show just the contrary. The facts of science show unequivocally that the theory of evolution is false.

-This is almost laughable. You’ve come to Freethought Blogs talking about how evolution is false. Science reigns here. Not false religious beliefs.
By the way, when you make bold assertions like “…the theory of evolution is false.” , you’re not going to convince anyone unless you present facts backed up by citations. No one is going to take your claims seriously without providing access to this information to read on their own.
Oh, and yes, evolution is supported by scientific facts.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=46

http://www.nas.edu/evolution/FAQ.html

and

http://humanorigins.si.edu/

You can learn about evolution at any of these sites, as well as many, many others. You seem to have been misinformed about evolution and need to be properly educated. That’s the problem with religions providing education. When you’re indoctrinated from such a young age, it’s massively difficult to develop the proper critical thinking skills to overcome the child abuse that is religious thought.