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	Comments on: NBC Report on Buying Firearms	</title>
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		<title>
		By: What I&#8217;m Reading Saturday, February 18, 2012 &#124; Rationally Thinking Out Loud		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20243</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What I&#8217;m Reading Saturday, February 18, 2012 &#124; Rationally Thinking Out Loud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20243</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[...] NBC Report on Buying Firearms &#124; The X Blog- [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] NBC Report on Buying Firearms | The X Blog- [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: SundogA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20242</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SundogA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 18:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20242</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not really seeing the problem here, Greg. The states are perfectly capable of regulating firearm ownership, within the bounds of the Federal and their particular state constitutions. And over-regulation is EXACTLY what I fear would happen with overall sweeping federal regulations - the last one I recall was the Assault Weapons Ban, a ban based on what weapons &lt;i&gt; looked like &lt;/i&gt; as opposed to actual function.
I&#039;m not an absolutist on this. The 1934 National Firearms Act was good legislation. The Gun Control Act of 1968, firmly based in the trade clauses of the constitution, gives a good base on which to build state regulatory frameworks. But in our federal system, I don&#039;t see a compelling reason for the federal government to ride roughshod over the states&#039;desires and impose their will, nor any good reason to believe that federal law will be any better even if it is the same everywhere.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not really seeing the problem here, Greg. The states are perfectly capable of regulating firearm ownership, within the bounds of the Federal and their particular state constitutions. And over-regulation is EXACTLY what I fear would happen with overall sweeping federal regulations &#8211; the last one I recall was the Assault Weapons Ban, a ban based on what weapons <i> looked like </i> as opposed to actual function.<br />
I&#8217;m not an absolutist on this. The 1934 National Firearms Act was good legislation. The Gun Control Act of 1968, firmly based in the trade clauses of the constitution, gives a good base on which to build state regulatory frameworks. But in our federal system, I don&#8217;t see a compelling reason for the federal government to ride roughshod over the states&#8217;desires and impose their will, nor any good reason to believe that federal law will be any better even if it is the same everywhere.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20241</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20241</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[But now, you see, you are either down to an is-ought argument (why have states if states aren&#039;t the way to do this?) on one hand or an over-regulated environment on the other (states with alligators get alligator guns. New yorkers have nothing to worry about out in the woods ... which will cause a minor revolution in coy-dog country or when people remember Robert Garrow... etc.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But now, you see, you are either down to an is-ought argument (why have states if states aren&#8217;t the way to do this?) on one hand or an over-regulated environment on the other (states with alligators get alligator guns. New yorkers have nothing to worry about out in the woods &#8230; which will cause a minor revolution in coy-dog country or when people remember Robert Garrow&#8230; etc.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: SundogA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20240</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SundogA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20240</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d certainly feel better about it than one sweeping generalization. I don&#039;t, however, feel that it would resolve the issue. &quot;Rural&quot; covers a LOT of different terrains and environments. On a pure &quot;need&quot; basis, a farmer in rural Kansas might well require nothing more than a Varmint gun. Another, out the back of beyond in Alaska, could well see the need for something that will stop a Polar Bear.
Someone in upstate New York does not need to worry about Alligators.
A single, well considered bill, with sufficient allowance for variations in area, MIGHT be able to cover all of that as regards regional variation; I&#039;m certainly not willing to say it couldn&#039;t. But I see no need for it. This is pretty much the reason the Federal mechanism exists - if we&#039;re not going to let the states deal with state matters, wy bother to have states? Why not centralize all power in D.C.? But if we&#039;re going to let the states be the states, we can&#039;t keep screaming &quot;Federal Laws!&quot; every time states make decisions we don&#039;t like. And incidentally, I don&#039;t find the minds of the Federal lawmakers any bigger than those in the state houses.

Alecthar: Jim Crow and the Anti-Miscengenation laws were overturned by Supreme Court rulings. Slavery was eventually killed by an amendment to the constitution, a decision the states most certainly had a say in. And as to education, the Federal interventions there have so far been somewhat less than stellar (&quot;No Child Left Behind&quot; (more like &quot;No Child Learns Beyond the Testing Requirements&quot;) being a pretty much perfect example of “one size wrong for everyone.” In none of the above cases did the Congress have very much input at all, save perhaps with the Emancipation Proclamation - which was primarily an executive measure and did not ban all slavery.
Now, it can be said (correctly) that the Supreme Court and the executive are part of the federal government, but if you&#039;re talking federal law, you&#039;re talking the Congress. Which does not have a good record on considering what happens even outside the Beltway, much less in individual states. &quot;States Rights&quot; exist specifically to delimit and degrade the power of the Federal Government - a elimitations and degradation I fully support. (Yes, I am a &quot;small-government&quot; conservative. No, I&#039;m not a maniac on the subject - which is why I have no problem voting Democrat these days).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d certainly feel better about it than one sweeping generalization. I don&#8217;t, however, feel that it would resolve the issue. &#8220;Rural&#8221; covers a LOT of different terrains and environments. On a pure &#8220;need&#8221; basis, a farmer in rural Kansas might well require nothing more than a Varmint gun. Another, out the back of beyond in Alaska, could well see the need for something that will stop a Polar Bear.<br />
Someone in upstate New York does not need to worry about Alligators.<br />
A single, well considered bill, with sufficient allowance for variations in area, MIGHT be able to cover all of that as regards regional variation; I&#8217;m certainly not willing to say it couldn&#8217;t. But I see no need for it. This is pretty much the reason the Federal mechanism exists &#8211; if we&#8217;re not going to let the states deal with state matters, wy bother to have states? Why not centralize all power in D.C.? But if we&#8217;re going to let the states be the states, we can&#8217;t keep screaming &#8220;Federal Laws!&#8221; every time states make decisions we don&#8217;t like. And incidentally, I don&#8217;t find the minds of the Federal lawmakers any bigger than those in the state houses.</p>
<p>Alecthar: Jim Crow and the Anti-Miscengenation laws were overturned by Supreme Court rulings. Slavery was eventually killed by an amendment to the constitution, a decision the states most certainly had a say in. And as to education, the Federal interventions there have so far been somewhat less than stellar (&#8220;No Child Left Behind&#8221; (more like &#8220;No Child Learns Beyond the Testing Requirements&#8221;) being a pretty much perfect example of “one size wrong for everyone.” In none of the above cases did the Congress have very much input at all, save perhaps with the Emancipation Proclamation &#8211; which was primarily an executive measure and did not ban all slavery.<br />
Now, it can be said (correctly) that the Supreme Court and the executive are part of the federal government, but if you&#8217;re talking federal law, you&#8217;re talking the Congress. Which does not have a good record on considering what happens even outside the Beltway, much less in individual states. &#8220;States Rights&#8221; exist specifically to delimit and degrade the power of the Federal Government &#8211; a elimitations and degradation I fully support. (Yes, I am a &#8220;small-government&#8221; conservative. No, I&#8217;m not a maniac on the subject &#8211; which is why I have no problem voting Democrat these days).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20239</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20239</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There was once a set of regulations that required each and every federal housing unit to have certain specifications (for housing authorities).  It was written in the Northeast and it did not take into account that the Federal Housing Authority manages housing in Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona, and Georgia, to name a few places where building the perfect house for New Jersey would be stupid.  

That was a dumb-ass regulation, it died within months, and regional differences were then taken into account for these specifications.

It simply is not true that there are two alternatives:  1 big-ass stupid idea vs. 50 wonderful ideas.  

So, no, I&#039;m not accepting the argument that 50 states independantly putting their little minds to a problem will come up with a superior solution to a well thought out plan that takes into account variation where appropriate, but also sticks to certain basic well worked out principles where appropriate. 

In particular, I have no clue yet as to why gun ownership, rules for sale, safety, or other regulation ideally varies from state to state. There are many reasons these things should be the same from state to state because people in the US are still free to move from one state to another.  

What do you think about the idea of rules of ownership being different for cities vs. rural areas? And yes, that is probably a trick question, but also a valid question because it gets at the crux of the matter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was once a set of regulations that required each and every federal housing unit to have certain specifications (for housing authorities).  It was written in the Northeast and it did not take into account that the Federal Housing Authority manages housing in Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona, and Georgia, to name a few places where building the perfect house for New Jersey would be stupid.  </p>
<p>That was a dumb-ass regulation, it died within months, and regional differences were then taken into account for these specifications.</p>
<p>It simply is not true that there are two alternatives:  1 big-ass stupid idea vs. 50 wonderful ideas.  </p>
<p>So, no, I&#8217;m not accepting the argument that 50 states independantly putting their little minds to a problem will come up with a superior solution to a well thought out plan that takes into account variation where appropriate, but also sticks to certain basic well worked out principles where appropriate. </p>
<p>In particular, I have no clue yet as to why gun ownership, rules for sale, safety, or other regulation ideally varies from state to state. There are many reasons these things should be the same from state to state because people in the US are still free to move from one state to another.  </p>
<p>What do you think about the idea of rules of ownership being different for cities vs. rural areas? And yes, that is probably a trick question, but also a valid question because it gets at the crux of the matter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alecthar		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20238</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alecthar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20238</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry, but let&#039;s take a look at some things that some portion of the 50 states decided was a good idea for their locality:

Slavery
Jim Crow Laws
Anti-Miscegenation Laws
Crappy, Underfunded Public Education

The first three are things the &quot;one size is wrong for everyone&quot; federal government had to step in to alter.  The last still hasn&#039;t been addressed to anyone&#039;s satisfaction.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, there are certainly a number of good reasons to have &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; varying state laws, but the US concept of &quot;states rights&quot; is stupid, and I can&#039;t think of any good reason why state governments should have as much power to buck good national policy as they do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but let&#8217;s take a look at some things that some portion of the 50 states decided was a good idea for their locality:</p>
<p>Slavery<br />
Jim Crow Laws<br />
Anti-Miscegenation Laws<br />
Crappy, Underfunded Public Education</p>
<p>The first three are things the &#8220;one size is wrong for everyone&#8221; federal government had to step in to alter.  The last still hasn&#8217;t been addressed to anyone&#8217;s satisfaction.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, there are certainly a number of good reasons to have <i>some</i> varying state laws, but the US concept of &#8220;states rights&#8221; is stupid, and I can&#8217;t think of any good reason why state governments should have as much power to buck good national policy as they do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SundogA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20237</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SundogA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 12:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20237</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[50 different laws may well not make perfect sense. Nor is it especially efficient. But it is a good thing.
Why? Because what &quot;Makes Sense&quot; to you may be utterly abhorrent to me, not merely because of personal preferences or philosophical differences, but because of actual difference in circumstance and environment (not, of course, that personal preference or philosophical difference are unimportant, since, of course, they are).
50 states allows for fifty different viewpoints, every one of them right for it&#039;s locality, to be expressed as law. To me, this is massively superior to &quot;one size fits all&quot; federal legislation - which usually ends up meaning &quot;one size wrong for everyone.&quot;
I do not accept absolutes. There is no absolute good, no absolute evil, and no, no absolute &quot;good sense&quot;. That is one test for law that I will not accept.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>50 different laws may well not make perfect sense. Nor is it especially efficient. But it is a good thing.<br />
Why? Because what &#8220;Makes Sense&#8221; to you may be utterly abhorrent to me, not merely because of personal preferences or philosophical differences, but because of actual difference in circumstance and environment (not, of course, that personal preference or philosophical difference are unimportant, since, of course, they are).<br />
50 states allows for fifty different viewpoints, every one of them right for it&#8217;s locality, to be expressed as law. To me, this is massively superior to &#8220;one size fits all&#8221; federal legislation &#8211; which usually ends up meaning &#8220;one size wrong for everyone.&#8221;<br />
I do not accept absolutes. There is no absolute good, no absolute evil, and no, no absolute &#8220;good sense&#8221;. That is one test for law that I will not accept.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Uncle Glenny		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20236</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Uncle Glenny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 09:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20236</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, I&#039;ll admit that video &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; a bit sensationalistic, at least to someone who doesn&#039;t know guns or laws controlling them, because it glossed over so much  and went so fast (and deemphasized the state-by-state differences).

About 20 years ago I purchased mace mail order, destination Massachusetts, and from a pet supply company in Massachusetts, without question.  I found out later (not much later though) that Massachusetts has some sort of licensing requirement.  I imagine this differs from guns in that there is no registration for individual cans of mace, so the unlawfulness would be in my possession of it once it arrives.

(Massachusetts car purchase is, as far as I can tell, much more complicated: pay, transfer title, then you must provide proof of insurance in order to receive the registration in order to be able to drive it.  This can make for some interesting bootstrap problems.)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ll admit that video <i>was</i> a bit sensationalistic, at least to someone who doesn&#8217;t know guns or laws controlling them, because it glossed over so much  and went so fast (and deemphasized the state-by-state differences).</p>
<p>About 20 years ago I purchased mace mail order, destination Massachusetts, and from a pet supply company in Massachusetts, without question.  I found out later (not much later though) that Massachusetts has some sort of licensing requirement.  I imagine this differs from guns in that there is no registration for individual cans of mace, so the unlawfulness would be in my possession of it once it arrives.</p>
<p>(Massachusetts car purchase is, as far as I can tell, much more complicated: pay, transfer title, then you must provide proof of insurance in order to receive the registration in order to be able to drive it.  This can make for some interesting bootstrap problems.)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20235</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 04:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20235</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The default is not state-by-state laws, the default is laws that make sense. I don&#039;t see why making 50 different sets of laws ever makes sense.  You suggest that the laws should be consistent but if the laws are overlain on a 50 piece jigsaw puzzle that isn&#039;t even a remote possibility.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The default is not state-by-state laws, the default is laws that make sense. I don&#8217;t see why making 50 different sets of laws ever makes sense.  You suggest that the laws should be consistent but if the laws are overlain on a 50 piece jigsaw puzzle that isn&#8217;t even a remote possibility.</p>
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		<title>
		By: SundogA		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/02/10/nbc-report-on-buying-firearms/#comment-20234</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SundogA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 03:56:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=2258#comment-20234</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why on a state-by-state basis? Because different states have differing needs. Or at the very least, differing perceived needs (whether the differences are real or not is a reasonable topic for debate). If a state believes they need strong gun laws to keep weapons strictly regulated, cool. But if a state and it&#039;s people feel otherwise, I don&#039;t believe they should have regulations they don&#039;t see a need for imposed on them.
There are laws that should be universal. I have seen, so far, no good argument why gun laws should come under this heading (and yes, I know people from strict states could go to permissive ones to buy guns. Just as people from dry states could go to permissive ones to buy alcohol. I view that as one of the prices we pay for having a Federal system - which I fully support).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why on a state-by-state basis? Because different states have differing needs. Or at the very least, differing perceived needs (whether the differences are real or not is a reasonable topic for debate). If a state believes they need strong gun laws to keep weapons strictly regulated, cool. But if a state and it&#8217;s people feel otherwise, I don&#8217;t believe they should have regulations they don&#8217;t see a need for imposed on them.<br />
There are laws that should be universal. I have seen, so far, no good argument why gun laws should come under this heading (and yes, I know people from strict states could go to permissive ones to buy guns. Just as people from dry states could go to permissive ones to buy alcohol. I view that as one of the prices we pay for having a Federal system &#8211; which I fully support).</p>
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