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	<title>
	Comments on: Global Cooling.  Is there anything to it?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 05:20:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Wrangler Wayne		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490784</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wrangler Wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 05:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490784</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Bob, thanks for your input. Actually, I was trying, tongue in cheek, to make the same point. CO2 rise is just a coincidence.
I agree it is not causation. We now see in Mexico City, kids as young as 6, developing Alzheimer like brain plaques and entanglements. Rural dogs brought into the city suffer the same fate. Air pollution. One of the worst in the world. More needs to be done there and here.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, thanks for your input. Actually, I was trying, tongue in cheek, to make the same point. CO2 rise is just a coincidence.<br />
I agree it is not causation. We now see in Mexico City, kids as young as 6, developing Alzheimer like brain plaques and entanglements. Rural dogs brought into the city suffer the same fate. Air pollution. One of the worst in the world. More needs to be done there and here.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wrangler Wayne		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490783</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wrangler Wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 05:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490783</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So, as I understand you, PDOs, El Ninos, LaNinas, AOs are not real, just coindinces? Or is it the last sentence? &quot;which corresponds very well to the emissions of carbon from fossil fuels.&quot; I meant that exactly as you stated: A coincidence!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, as I understand you, PDOs, El Ninos, LaNinas, AOs are not real, just coindinces? Or is it the last sentence? &#8220;which corresponds very well to the emissions of carbon from fossil fuels.&#8221; I meant that exactly as you stated: A coincidence!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490782</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 17:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490782</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[We knew the causality before it happened, with global warming.  That is why it is so convincing: It was predicted, the physics was understood, it happened, it&#039;s real.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We knew the causality before it happened, with global warming.  That is why it is so convincing: It was predicted, the physics was understood, it happened, it&#8217;s real.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Sun		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490781</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Sun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490781</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wayne, I repeat for you the above posted principle, applicable to all scientific endeavors (except, apparently, climate science).

&quot;The observation of a coincidence is not PROOF of causation. It is a suggestion of one.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wayne, I repeat for you the above posted principle, applicable to all scientific endeavors (except, apparently, climate science).</p>
<p>&#8220;The observation of a coincidence is not PROOF of causation. It is a suggestion of one.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wrangler Wayne		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490780</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wrangler Wayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490780</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The global temps have been increasing at about 0.46 deg C per century for the past 200 years. This has been recently verified by NASA.  Overlaying that are the temp swings due to the various Earth based and Solar cycles. Most of that warming has been during the last century, and most of that during the last part of this century, which corresponds very well to the emissions of carbon from fossil fuels.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The global temps have been increasing at about 0.46 deg C per century for the past 200 years. This has been recently verified by NASA.  Overlaying that are the temp swings due to the various Earth based and Solar cycles. Most of that warming has been during the last century, and most of that during the last part of this century, which corresponds very well to the emissions of carbon from fossil fuels.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Sun		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490779</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Sun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490779</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Try reading my post more carefully

1. I did not argue that there has been no climate change recently. That is well-documented. My post specifically dealt with the flaws in Santer&#039;s supposed crushing of a myth. The argument was flawed, and to dismiss that &quot;myth&quot; somebody should start over.

To elaborate on my point, the statistics of the noise in the stock market, Santer&#039;s model, are best dealt with using Mandelbrodt&#039;s fractal theory, which states that the stock market can NOT be predicted from past data. The apparently well-behaved trends that Santer sees in his smoothing would just be noise, but on a larger scale.

My other point was that the association of the observed warming trend with human activity is a problem separate from the observation of a warming trend. From a scientific perspective, it is inadequate to observe a coincidence with CO2 trends. You need to put forward a quantitative theory that links them, and that has not gone as well as some pretend. CO2 does NOT, by itself, explain the warming, contrary to common (and Mr. Laden&#039;s) beliefs.

There are many indicators of temperature trends from the past. Prof. Mann has used tree rings, but is forced to make all kinds of adjustments to explain contradictions. There is data from the Sargasso Sea and from peat bogs around the world that contradict Mann&#039;s data. It is my understanding that ice core data provides information about past CO2 levels. However, that data shows CO2 to increase AFTER warming trends, not during or before.

The climate computer models do predict increase in weather anomalies as temperature levels go up, and anecdotal evidence has been cited as a demonstration of the validity of the model (but not of the human contribution, Bruce). However, a massive review of weather data over the past 100 years, carried out by NOAA, directly contradicts the anecdotes you refer to. There have been NO statistically significant changes in incidence of extreme weather events over that period. The authors, a list of Who&#039;s Who in climate science, conclude that their climate models are flawed. Does their conclusion shake your confidence at all? It should.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/people/gilbert.p.compo/20CRv2_Compoetal2010.pdf]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Try reading my post more carefully</p>
<p>1. I did not argue that there has been no climate change recently. That is well-documented. My post specifically dealt with the flaws in Santer&#8217;s supposed crushing of a myth. The argument was flawed, and to dismiss that &#8220;myth&#8221; somebody should start over.</p>
<p>To elaborate on my point, the statistics of the noise in the stock market, Santer&#8217;s model, are best dealt with using Mandelbrodt&#8217;s fractal theory, which states that the stock market can NOT be predicted from past data. The apparently well-behaved trends that Santer sees in his smoothing would just be noise, but on a larger scale.</p>
<p>My other point was that the association of the observed warming trend with human activity is a problem separate from the observation of a warming trend. From a scientific perspective, it is inadequate to observe a coincidence with CO2 trends. You need to put forward a quantitative theory that links them, and that has not gone as well as some pretend. CO2 does NOT, by itself, explain the warming, contrary to common (and Mr. Laden&#8217;s) beliefs.</p>
<p>There are many indicators of temperature trends from the past. Prof. Mann has used tree rings, but is forced to make all kinds of adjustments to explain contradictions. There is data from the Sargasso Sea and from peat bogs around the world that contradict Mann&#8217;s data. It is my understanding that ice core data provides information about past CO2 levels. However, that data shows CO2 to increase AFTER warming trends, not during or before.</p>
<p>The climate computer models do predict increase in weather anomalies as temperature levels go up, and anecdotal evidence has been cited as a demonstration of the validity of the model (but not of the human contribution, Bruce). However, a massive review of weather data over the past 100 years, carried out by NOAA, directly contradicts the anecdotes you refer to. There have been NO statistically significant changes in incidence of extreme weather events over that period. The authors, a list of Who&#8217;s Who in climate science, conclude that their climate models are flawed. Does their conclusion shake your confidence at all? It should.<br />
<a href="http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/people/gilbert.p.compo/20CRv2_Compoetal2010.pdf" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/people/gilbert.p.compo/20CRv2_Compoetal2010.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Bob Sun		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490778</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bob Sun]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490778</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I did respond to Mr. Laden&#039;s misunderstandings, but he saw fit to delete them. I might respond to your misunderstanding of my post, but I suspect that would be deleted, too.

So this post is primarily to tweak the intellectual honesty of the Harvard grad. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did respond to Mr. Laden&#8217;s misunderstandings, but he saw fit to delete them. I might respond to your misunderstanding of my post, but I suspect that would be deleted, too.</p>
<p>So this post is primarily to tweak the intellectual honesty of the Harvard grad. </p>
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		<title>
		By: StevoR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490777</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevoR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490777</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One more really good and informative clip here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq8_l6s89uY

&lt;i&gt;Climate change - isn&#039;t it natural&#039;&lt;/i&gt; by Potholer54 - part of an excellent series by him looking at the HIRGO issue.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more really good and informative clip here :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq8_l6s89uY" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq8_l6s89uY</a></p>
<p><i>Climate change &#8211; isn&#8217;t it natural&#8217;</i> by Potholer54 &#8211; part of an excellent series by him looking at the HIRGO issue.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevoR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490776</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevoR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 09:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490776</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@1. Bob Sun &#124; February 6, 2012 4:54 PM

&lt;blockquote&gt;Dr. Santer makes a commonly used leap of faith when he argues, at the end of talk, that the evidence of global warming is proof of man-made global warming. Almost everyone agrees that these are two separate issues. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry, but actually I think you&#039;ll find that&#039;s dead wrong. Most people - more importantly most climatologists who are the experts on the climate in the same way medical doctors are about human health and illness agree the Human Induced Rapid Global Overheating as I call it, really is, well, human induced.

See :

http://www.skepticalscience.com/its-not-us-intermediate.htm

Or this short Youtube clip :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ob9WdbXx0

featuring Sir David Attenborough &lt;i&gt;(The Truth About Climate Change)&lt;/i&gt; which dramatically illustrates why we know we are indeed the cause.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1. Bob Sun | February 6, 2012 4:54 PM</p>
<blockquote><p>Dr. Santer makes a commonly used leap of faith when he argues, at the end of talk, that the evidence of global warming is proof of man-made global warming. Almost everyone agrees that these are two separate issues. </p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, but actually I think you&#8217;ll find that&#8217;s dead wrong. Most people &#8211; more importantly most climatologists who are the experts on the climate in the same way medical doctors are about human health and illness agree the Human Induced Rapid Global Overheating as I call it, really is, well, human induced.</p>
<p>See :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.skepticalscience.com/its-not-us-intermediate.htm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.skepticalscience.com/its-not-us-intermediate.htm</a></p>
<p>Or this short Youtube clip :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ob9WdbXx0" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9ob9WdbXx0</a></p>
<p>featuring Sir David Attenborough <i>(The Truth About Climate Change)</i> which dramatically illustrates why we know we are indeed the cause.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Bruce		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490775</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 04:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2012/01/30/global-cooling-is-there-anythi/#comment-490775</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Haven&#039;t the ice cores shown real temps going back 600,000 years? Its not just about the last twenty years, even if the last ten years for most places have been the hottest summers on record.

Also the increase in natural disasters such as cyclones/tornadoes, cold snaps etc agree with the expected high variations due to chaos theory (messing with the set point). A cold snap or a cold winter does not mean global cooling, its the average temp over the earth compared with the long term past, and the acceleration of the heating caused by green house gases, predominantly caused by an increasing population burning fuels. Whats not to get?

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t the ice cores shown real temps going back 600,000 years? Its not just about the last twenty years, even if the last ten years for most places have been the hottest summers on record.</p>
<p>Also the increase in natural disasters such as cyclones/tornadoes, cold snaps etc agree with the expected high variations due to chaos theory (messing with the set point). A cold snap or a cold winter does not mean global cooling, its the average temp over the earth compared with the long term past, and the acceleration of the heating caused by green house gases, predominantly caused by an increasing population burning fuels. Whats not to get?</p>
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