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	Comments on: Interesting new idea: No faking ads	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Art		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18407</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 18:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18407</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IMO the main reason such regulations are blocked in the US comes down to the attitude our resident aristocracy/oligarchic plutocrats/kleptocracy have about the US and their role within it. 

The mythology is that the US is a special place of freedom where the elite rise to the surface so anyone on top must, therefore, be elite. This elite, the &#039;job producers&#039; in GOP-speak, don&#039;t owe anyone anything. Mythology being that any outside interference in this rarefied system will ruin it and the monied elite, shy woodland creatures that they are, will will run away, hide, and the blooms of prosperity that sprout where they defecate will not grow. 

The idea that they might have to pay taxes and conform to rules conflicts with their vision of themselves as free agents chosen by God to both plunder and lead this special nation as they see fit. It isn&#039;t that a rule that says that they can&#039;t lie outright would impose any great cost or burden.  Odds are that their army of minions and lobbyists, using human-wave tactics and sacks of money as cudgels, will be able to modify any legislation to make it both meaningless and toothless. Even if it came through intact they certainly have enough lawyers saddled and ready to go to find a way around this sort of rule. 

But all that is besides the point. It isn&#039;t the legislation and rules themselves that they object to. What chafes and binds their hides is the simple objective reality that there are people out there who have both the right and authority to impose a rule on them and demand compliance from them. It ruins the illusion that they are Masters of the Universe.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO the main reason such regulations are blocked in the US comes down to the attitude our resident aristocracy/oligarchic plutocrats/kleptocracy have about the US and their role within it. </p>
<p>The mythology is that the US is a special place of freedom where the elite rise to the surface so anyone on top must, therefore, be elite. This elite, the &#8216;job producers&#8217; in GOP-speak, don&#8217;t owe anyone anything. Mythology being that any outside interference in this rarefied system will ruin it and the monied elite, shy woodland creatures that they are, will will run away, hide, and the blooms of prosperity that sprout where they defecate will not grow. </p>
<p>The idea that they might have to pay taxes and conform to rules conflicts with their vision of themselves as free agents chosen by God to both plunder and lead this special nation as they see fit. It isn&#8217;t that a rule that says that they can&#8217;t lie outright would impose any great cost or burden.  Odds are that their army of minions and lobbyists, using human-wave tactics and sacks of money as cudgels, will be able to modify any legislation to make it both meaningless and toothless. Even if it came through intact they certainly have enough lawyers saddled and ready to go to find a way around this sort of rule. </p>
<p>But all that is besides the point. It isn&#8217;t the legislation and rules themselves that they object to. What chafes and binds their hides is the simple objective reality that there are people out there who have both the right and authority to impose a rule on them and demand compliance from them. It ruins the illusion that they are Masters of the Universe.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Francisco Bacopa		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18406</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Francisco Bacopa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 18:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18406</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, Croesus of Lydia is one of the few that comes to mind. He was captured alive near Sardis, far inside his own territory. Croesus had made a pretty good effort that spring and summer, but was eventually stopped by the newly formed Persian Empire. He withdrew his army for the winter, the Persians staged a rare for that time winter campaign, capturing Croesus and most of the Lydian. As usual, the Persians allowed the Lydians a great deal of local autonomy. They were quite enlightened as colonial masters. 

Readers might be familiar with the Biblical accounts of how the ancient Jews did pretty well under Persian rule.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Croesus of Lydia is one of the few that comes to mind. He was captured alive near Sardis, far inside his own territory. Croesus had made a pretty good effort that spring and summer, but was eventually stopped by the newly formed Persian Empire. He withdrew his army for the winter, the Persians staged a rare for that time winter campaign, capturing Croesus and most of the Lydian. As usual, the Persians allowed the Lydians a great deal of local autonomy. They were quite enlightened as colonial masters. </p>
<p>Readers might be familiar with the Biblical accounts of how the ancient Jews did pretty well under Persian rule.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18405</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 17:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18405</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually, the last two invasions of Iraq (both by a Bush) were among the first ever where the leader of the nation/polity that invaded did not die in the field somewhere near the Tigrus/Euphrates rivers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the last two invasions of Iraq (both by a Bush) were among the first ever where the leader of the nation/polity that invaded did not die in the field somewhere near the Tigrus/Euphrates rivers.</p>
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		By: maureen.brian		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18404</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maureen.brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 16:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18404</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I accept that there is a cultural difference.  Part of it was in the mythology of the US rather than in the practice  -  or it was until you started electing under-educated ideologues to posts higher than dog-catcher.

I know that some of the detail is now horrible to contemplate but the trans-continental railroad was not built by half a dozen blokes going off into the wilderness with a theodolite each and building exactly what they wanted where they wanted and never mind how we&#039;ll join up two sections of track at different gauges along contour lines 200 metres apart vertically.  You know it did not happen like that.

In other situations you&#039;d be the first to say that what the rethugs say is inherent in the American psyche is 98% bollocks.  Hell, you guys used to be good at large and complex projects requiring all the common purpose / tight adherence to standards / efficiency which seems to have become impossible since the fog of Fox News descended. 

With reading matter in short supply at the time I grew up on the technical drawings of the Hoover dam!  More importantly, do you think Eisenhower and Montgomery would have made as much of a mess of Iraq?

It is too easy to assume that by the time the Roman Empire collapsed we Europeans were permanently programmed to accept any and every rule imposed upon us.  In truth, we have tended to use the very American virtues of courage and vision to deal with each major change as it came along  -  usually, after a short bout of fisticuffs, agreeing upon a means of coping with the new reality.  Realists not wimps!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I accept that there is a cultural difference.  Part of it was in the mythology of the US rather than in the practice  &#8211;  or it was until you started electing under-educated ideologues to posts higher than dog-catcher.</p>
<p>I know that some of the detail is now horrible to contemplate but the trans-continental railroad was not built by half a dozen blokes going off into the wilderness with a theodolite each and building exactly what they wanted where they wanted and never mind how we&#8217;ll join up two sections of track at different gauges along contour lines 200 metres apart vertically.  You know it did not happen like that.</p>
<p>In other situations you&#8217;d be the first to say that what the rethugs say is inherent in the American psyche is 98% bollocks.  Hell, you guys used to be good at large and complex projects requiring all the common purpose / tight adherence to standards / efficiency which seems to have become impossible since the fog of Fox News descended. </p>
<p>With reading matter in short supply at the time I grew up on the technical drawings of the Hoover dam!  More importantly, do you think Eisenhower and Montgomery would have made as much of a mess of Iraq?</p>
<p>It is too easy to assume that by the time the Roman Empire collapsed we Europeans were permanently programmed to accept any and every rule imposed upon us.  In truth, we have tended to use the very American virtues of courage and vision to deal with each major change as it came along  &#8211;  usually, after a short bout of fisticuffs, agreeing upon a means of coping with the new reality.  Realists not wimps!</p>
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		<title>
		By: uqbar		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18403</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[uqbar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 16:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18403</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Whenever you see an advertisement, you should just assume you are being lied to - advertisers even lie about lying - they call it &quot;puffery&quot; (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery). This is a fact which any responsible parent should teach their children. Unfortunately, it&#039;s getting harder to know when you are seeing an ad due to &quot;product placement&quot; - I taught my kids to watch for this too, and they got quite good at; we made a game of it, and they often spotted things I had missed.

Caveat emptor - more now than ever!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever you see an advertisement, you should just assume you are being lied to &#8211; advertisers even lie about lying &#8211; they call it &#8220;puffery&#8221; (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery</a>). This is a fact which any responsible parent should teach their children. Unfortunately, it&#8217;s getting harder to know when you are seeing an ad due to &#8220;product placement&#8221; &#8211; I taught my kids to watch for this too, and they got quite good at; we made a game of it, and they often spotted things I had missed.</p>
<p>Caveat emptor &#8211; more now than ever!</p>
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		<title>
		By: jamessweet		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18402</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamessweet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 15:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18402</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As to &quot;Photoshop not always being Photoshop&quot;, let me straighten it out for you:  &quot;Photoshop&quot; with a capital &quot;p&quot; is a noun referring to an image editing tool made by Adobe.  &quot;photoshop&quot; with a lower-case &quot;p&quot; is a verb referring to the user of Photoshop &lt;i&gt;or other similar editing tools&lt;/i&gt; such as Gimp.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like, &quot;I used Gimp to photoshop my ex out of all out Christmas photos.&quot;  Well, maybe the last part of the sentence has something wrong with it, but &quot;using Gimp to photoshop&quot; is perfectly acceptable IMHO.

If you don&#039;t like it, here&#039;s a kleenex you can use while you cry me a river.  I&#039;ll snap a polaroid and xerox a hundred copies to hand out to all your neighbors.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to &#8220;Photoshop not always being Photoshop&#8221;, let me straighten it out for you:  &#8220;Photoshop&#8221; with a capital &#8220;p&#8221; is a noun referring to an image editing tool made by Adobe.  &#8220;photoshop&#8221; with a lower-case &#8220;p&#8221; is a verb referring to the user of Photoshop <i>or other similar editing tools</i> such as Gimp.</p>
<p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying something like, &#8220;I used Gimp to photoshop my ex out of all out Christmas photos.&#8221;  Well, maybe the last part of the sentence has something wrong with it, but &#8220;using Gimp to photoshop&#8221; is perfectly acceptable IMHO.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t like it, here&#8217;s a kleenex you can use while you cry me a river.  I&#8217;ll snap a polaroid and xerox a hundred copies to hand out to all your neighbors.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18401</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 15:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18401</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think the problem is deeper than that. The tragedy of the commons is something that every European nation/culture has suffered for centuries, but in the US it has barely touched us. The idea of regulation itself is centuries old in Europe.  It is part of the culture in Europe, while anti-regulation is part of our culture in the US.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem is deeper than that. The tragedy of the commons is something that every European nation/culture has suffered for centuries, but in the US it has barely touched us. The idea of regulation itself is centuries old in Europe.  It is part of the culture in Europe, while anti-regulation is part of our culture in the US.</p>
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		<title>
		By: maureen.brian		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/17/interesting-new-idea-no-faking-ads/#comment-18400</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maureen.brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Dec 2011 15:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=1690#comment-18400</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I dunno, Greg.  The UK&#039;s system is certainly worth having.  Of course some people will push and push at testing the limits.  Others claim to be too thick to know there were standards, not that it does them much good in the adjudication.

Have a look at what our ASA gets up to  -  http://www.asa.org.uk/

Your problem in the US may be that your captains of industry are coming rather late to the idea of honesty but all the big marketing companies work internationally and if they can cope with restrictions on straight-out lying in one place then they can cope with it in another, surely.

(This message comes to you from one of a team which had the complaint against it rejected but still got its wrist slapped for lack of good taste  -  in a charity fundraising ad!)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dunno, Greg.  The UK&#8217;s system is certainly worth having.  Of course some people will push and push at testing the limits.  Others claim to be too thick to know there were standards, not that it does them much good in the adjudication.</p>
<p>Have a look at what our ASA gets up to  &#8211;  <a href="http://www.asa.org.uk/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.asa.org.uk/</a></p>
<p>Your problem in the US may be that your captains of industry are coming rather late to the idea of honesty but all the big marketing companies work internationally and if they can cope with restrictions on straight-out lying in one place then they can cope with it in another, surely.</p>
<p>(This message comes to you from one of a team which had the complaint against it rejected but still got its wrist slapped for lack of good taste  &#8211;  in a charity fundraising ad!)</p>
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