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	<title>
	Comments on: Programmers suck; Programs suck; Programming languages suck.	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Delk		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-578672</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Delk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2018 09:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-578672</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know what to say but somewhat agree with you that programming is difficult. but there are many programmers that are very skilled in programming languages and developing software for clients http://www.delkn.com]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what to say but somewhat agree with you that programming is difficult. but there are many programmers that are very skilled in programming languages and developing software for clients <a href="http://www.delkn.com" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.delkn.com</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Development guys		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510175</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Development guys]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2017 12:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510175</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think that they&#039;re right that it is better to create entirely new ones! It&#039;s too hard to upgrade the language]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that they&#8217;re right that it is better to create entirely new ones! It&#8217;s too hard to upgrade the language</p>
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		<title>
		By: Software Outsourcing		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510174</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Software Outsourcing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 10:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510174</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I do a lot of programming and from time to time I hear (or even say) â??Language X Sucks for reasons A, B and Câ? but Iâ??ve come to realise that 99% of the time itâ??s not languages that suck itâ??s the programmers that use them.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do a lot of programming and from time to time I hear (or even say) â??Language X Sucks for reasons A, B and Câ? but Iâ??ve come to realise that 99% of the time itâ??s not languages that suck itâ??s the programmers that use them.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dunc		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510173</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dunc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 18:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510173</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;All that being said the biggest contributor by orders of magnitude to bad programs is bad managers and bad project leaders.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Good points, but you&#039;re still missing the &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; biggest problem: fucking &lt;i&gt;customers&lt;/i&gt;. &quot;Yeah, we&#039;d like you to write some software to implement a business process that we don&#039;t even understand ourselves and which changes more rapidly than our understanding of it does. We&#039;re going to give you a bunch of contradictory requirements that we&#039;re going to keep changing at random for no apparent reason and with no regard for any knock-on effects. Oh, and we&#039;d like to complete the project in half the time you said it would take, and the go-live date is set in stone because Marketing have already distributed a bunch of literature...&quot;

Bastards. ;)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>All that being said the biggest contributor by orders of magnitude to bad programs is bad managers and bad project leaders.</p></blockquote>
<p>Good points, but you&#8217;re still missing the <i>real</i> biggest problem: fucking <i>customers</i>. &#8220;Yeah, we&#8217;d like you to write some software to implement a business process that we don&#8217;t even understand ourselves and which changes more rapidly than our understanding of it does. We&#8217;re going to give you a bunch of contradictory requirements that we&#8217;re going to keep changing at random for no apparent reason and with no regard for any knock-on effects. Oh, and we&#8217;d like to complete the project in half the time you said it would take, and the go-live date is set in stone because Marketing have already distributed a bunch of literature&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Bastards. 😉</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:53:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some day I will write up the specifications for my project.  It applies to allmost all programming languages but is especailly relevant to text processing and would need to be implemented in shell programming as well. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some day I will write up the specifications for my project.  It applies to allmost all programming languages but is especailly relevant to text processing and would need to be implemented in shell programming as well. </p>
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		<title>
		By: InvincibleIronyMan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[InvincibleIronyMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Screw the big guns. I&#039;ll volunteer to help you implement your idea for for free if it&#039;s any good, so long as you agree to Open Source it and give it away for nothing.

I made applications and websites for years for people like BT, Reuters, Lloyds Bank, Marks &amp; Spencers et al. and it turned something which I love, programming, into an annoying, painful torture. I am not going to do it again unless it fulfills one requirement: it must be a good project that helps people and is worth doing for it&#039;s own sake, commercial considerations be damned. I&#039;m not going to help these people ever again, and if I could help to undermine them then so much the better.

I must say, the title of your post really caught my eye since it&#039;s something I&#039;ve been saying for years.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Screw the big guns. I&#8217;ll volunteer to help you implement your idea for for free if it&#8217;s any good, so long as you agree to Open Source it and give it away for nothing.</p>
<p>I made applications and websites for years for people like BT, Reuters, Lloyds Bank, Marks &#038; Spencers et al. and it turned something which I love, programming, into an annoying, painful torture. I am not going to do it again unless it fulfills one requirement: it must be a good project that helps people and is worth doing for it&#8217;s own sake, commercial considerations be damned. I&#8217;m not going to help these people ever again, and if I could help to undermine them then so much the better.</p>
<p>I must say, the title of your post really caught my eye since it&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve been saying for years.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 03:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have only one requirement for a computer program that as yet no regularly used program has implemented, and it is very very simple. It would make programming so much more error free, effective, and cool.  

I&#039;m not sure how much money I require to pass this on. Waiting for offers from Microsoft, Sun, all the big guns. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have only one requirement for a computer program that as yet no regularly used program has implemented, and it is very very simple. It would make programming so much more error free, effective, and cool.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how much money I require to pass this on. Waiting for offers from Microsoft, Sun, all the big guns. </p>
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		<title>
		By: InvincibleIronyMan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[InvincibleIronyMan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Dec 2011 03:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@MadScientist Jeez, what do you take me for, some kind of masochist? Take it from me, Haskell is nothing like Ada! Neither is F#. I know Ada, it&#039;s like Pascal for anal retentives! Haskell is incredibly terse and powerful. Using it, you really feel like you are thinking about the problem you&#039;re trying to solve instead of struggling with how to express it in code. 

F# is really nice because you get all the power of a functional language, but you can write in pretty much any style you like. Functional, imperative, object-oriented. It&#039;s strongly typed, but it has built in generics and type inference, so you can use it like a dynamic scripting language for rapid prototyping. Then, when it comes to writing a final product, you can flesh out your program and give it a properly rigorous and formal structure. And it&#039;s .Net, so you have that whole class library to work with right off the bat, whether your coding under Windows or on MacOS or Linux using Mono, the open source version of .Net. I really sound like I am trying to sell it to you don&#039;t I? Believe me, I am usually pretty hard to please!

If you are interested in taking a look at it, the introductory videos by Dom Symes a a pretty good place to start: http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/C9-Lectures-Dr-Don-Syme-Introduction-to-F-1-of-3

Are you a Python programmer? You sound like you might be. Gotta love Python.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MadScientist Jeez, what do you take me for, some kind of masochist? Take it from me, Haskell is nothing like Ada! Neither is F#. I know Ada, it&#8217;s like Pascal for anal retentives! Haskell is incredibly terse and powerful. Using it, you really feel like you are thinking about the problem you&#8217;re trying to solve instead of struggling with how to express it in code. </p>
<p>F# is really nice because you get all the power of a functional language, but you can write in pretty much any style you like. Functional, imperative, object-oriented. It&#8217;s strongly typed, but it has built in generics and type inference, so you can use it like a dynamic scripting language for rapid prototyping. Then, when it comes to writing a final product, you can flesh out your program and give it a properly rigorous and formal structure. And it&#8217;s .Net, so you have that whole class library to work with right off the bat, whether your coding under Windows or on MacOS or Linux using Mono, the open source version of .Net. I really sound like I am trying to sell it to you don&#8217;t I? Believe me, I am usually pretty hard to please!</p>
<p>If you are interested in taking a look at it, the introductory videos by Dom Symes a a pretty good place to start: <a href="http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/C9-Lectures-Dr-Don-Syme-Introduction-to-F-1-of-3" rel="nofollow ugc">http://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/C9-Lectures-Dr-Don-Syme-Introduction-to-F-1-of-3</a></p>
<p>Are you a Python programmer? You sound like you might be. Gotta love Python.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@InvincibleIronyMan#12:

&#039;... and when it finally &quot;clicked&quot;, being moved to tears by the beauty of the code.&#039;

See, many language designers would see that as a fatal flaw (obscurity of code) rather than something wonderful. In the end people use whatever language they want (even though it is ill-suited to the task) and you&#039;ll always get some people defending a particular language. One of the worst languages I&#039;ve seen is ADA - it&#039;s so bad that the designers later tweaked things to put very severe limits on what any one module can do - and now the horrible mishmash is touted as being &#039;reliable&#039;, &#039;maintainable&#039;, and &#039;encouraging correct coding&#039;.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@InvincibleIronyMan#12:</p>
<p>&#8216;&#8230; and when it finally &#8220;clicked&#8221;, being moved to tears by the beauty of the code.&#8217;</p>
<p>See, many language designers would see that as a fatal flaw (obscurity of code) rather than something wonderful. In the end people use whatever language they want (even though it is ill-suited to the task) and you&#8217;ll always get some people defending a particular language. One of the worst languages I&#8217;ve seen is ADA &#8211; it&#8217;s so bad that the designers later tweaked things to put very severe limits on what any one module can do &#8211; and now the horrible mishmash is touted as being &#8216;reliable&#8217;, &#8216;maintainable&#8217;, and &#8216;encouraging correct coding&#8217;.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510167</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 21:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/09/programmers-suck-programs-suck/#comment-510167</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Go here and fill out the form:

http://www.castsoftware.com/resources/resource/email-campaigns/cast-report-on-application-software-health?GAD=HPB
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go here and fill out the form:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.castsoftware.com/resources/resource/email-campaigns/cast-report-on-application-software-health?GAD=HPB" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.castsoftware.com/resources/resource/email-campaigns/cast-report-on-application-software-health?GAD=HPB</a></p>
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