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	Comments on: Japan Nuclear Disaster Update # 41: Good News &#8211; it&#8217;s bad.  Bad news &#8211; it&#8217;s worse than we think	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 13:14:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Damain Campbell		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510078</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damain Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 13:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510078</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Japan&#039;s disaster was the most dangerous disaster but this article has sidelined all the things and have presented brand new perspective on nuclear disaster. Keep it up!One should try to look everything from different angels and that&#039;s the jist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Japan&#8217;s disaster was the most dangerous disaster but this article has sidelined all the things and have presented brand new perspective on nuclear disaster. Keep it up!One should try to look everything from different angels and that&#8217;s the jist.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James Aach		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510077</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James Aach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 18:34:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510077</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t offer any detailed comments of Fukushima, beyond saying it was clearly a massive boo-boo.  However, if readers would like more perspective on how a nuclear plant operates from someone who has actually done it, I would recommend my novel &quot;Rad Decision&quot;.  The book is free online with no sponsors or advertisements - just google the title.  It captures both the good and the bad of atomic funhouses.  As a bonus, the featured plant is similar in design to Fukushima and the climatic event also bears a strong resemblance to what happened in the early stages there.  I am hearing from readers that the book is helpful in understanding that catastrophe.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t offer any detailed comments of Fukushima, beyond saying it was clearly a massive boo-boo.  However, if readers would like more perspective on how a nuclear plant operates from someone who has actually done it, I would recommend my novel &#8220;Rad Decision&#8221;.  The book is free online with no sponsors or advertisements &#8211; just google the title.  It captures both the good and the bad of atomic funhouses.  As a bonus, the featured plant is similar in design to Fukushima and the climatic event also bears a strong resemblance to what happened in the early stages there.  I am hearing from readers that the book is helpful in understanding that catastrophe.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Vince Whirlwind		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510076</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vince Whirlwind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 03:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510076</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the concrete is exposed to fierce heat it can (and will) experience all sorts of different failures. The strength of the concrete and its depth would only delay the escape of the molten fuel, not stop it, especially as fission has been occurring within the molten mass.
 
As the above poster has pointed out, almost everything we&#039;ve ever been told about Fukushima by the Japanese government, TEPCO, and other nuclear-industry apologists has turned out to have been wildly optimistic.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the concrete is exposed to fierce heat it can (and will) experience all sorts of different failures. The strength of the concrete and its depth would only delay the escape of the molten fuel, not stop it, especially as fission has been occurring within the molten mass.</p>
<p>As the above poster has pointed out, almost everything we&#8217;ve ever been told about Fukushima by the Japanese government, TEPCO, and other nuclear-industry apologists has turned out to have been wildly optimistic.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510075</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510075</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Be careful what you dismiss. So far almost everything that has been dismissed in one of the Fukushima comment threads has come to pass, or some version of it.  Remember back when these plants could not melt down? The containment could not possibly be eaten through (for much the same reasons you give here for the concrete being impenetrable)? 

&quot;Confidently dismiss&quot; and &quot;Fukishma&quot; do not go together very well these days.  Especially with TEPCO lying it&#039;s ass off.  

Though I do agree that that particular scenario is somewhat extreme.  The fact remains that the idea that much of the core material is in containment is at this point  absurd.  For at least two reactors it has mostly gotten out.  TEPCO seems to have no idea what is going on geologically below the plant. 

I would not want to rule anything out at this point.  
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be careful what you dismiss. So far almost everything that has been dismissed in one of the Fukushima comment threads has come to pass, or some version of it.  Remember back when these plants could not melt down? The containment could not possibly be eaten through (for much the same reasons you give here for the concrete being impenetrable)? </p>
<p>&#8220;Confidently dismiss&#8221; and &#8220;Fukishma&#8221; do not go together very well these days.  Especially with TEPCO lying it&#8217;s ass off.  </p>
<p>Though I do agree that that particular scenario is somewhat extreme.  The fact remains that the idea that much of the core material is in containment is at this point  absurd.  For at least two reactors it has mostly gotten out.  TEPCO seems to have no idea what is going on geologically below the plant. </p>
<p>I would not want to rule anything out at this point.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510074</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Dec 2011 01:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/12/07/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-18/#comment-510074</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;... suggests that nuclear fuel beneath the plant may be as deep as 12 meters below the foundation level ...&quot;

Uh - how is that supposed to happen? Really, to melt through the concrete alone the pellets would have to get so hot that they&#039;d vaporize. If the concrete is cracked then fine particles or dissolved material could wash into the soil below, but in that case the material will be diluted so much that it would quench quickly and not continually produce huge amounts of heat through residual fission. Alternatively we can imagine the pellets have fallen into large cracks in the concrete and agglomerated enough to continue to fission (which is a possibility given the huge amount of fuel in the core). However, we can confidently dismiss the &quot;continuing to melt its way through the earth&quot; bit.
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230; suggests that nuclear fuel beneath the plant may be as deep as 12 meters below the foundation level &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Uh &#8211; how is that supposed to happen? Really, to melt through the concrete alone the pellets would have to get so hot that they&#8217;d vaporize. If the concrete is cracked then fine particles or dissolved material could wash into the soil below, but in that case the material will be diluted so much that it would quench quickly and not continually produce huge amounts of heat through residual fission. Alternatively we can imagine the pellets have fallen into large cracks in the concrete and agglomerated enough to continue to fission (which is a possibility given the huge amount of fuel in the core). However, we can confidently dismiss the &#8220;continuing to melt its way through the earth&#8221; bit.</p>
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