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	<title>
	Comments on: Church-State Separation Case Impending	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Mu		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/#comment-12442</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 21:08:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=570#comment-12442</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I hope this case will also remove, or lead to the removal off, the &quot;religious purity oath&quot; requirements that &quot;faith-based&quot; businesses can demand from their employees, whether they conduct religious business or not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope this case will also remove, or lead to the removal off, the &#8220;religious purity oath&#8221; requirements that &#8220;faith-based&#8221; businesses can demand from their employees, whether they conduct religious business or not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jamessweet		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/#comment-12441</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jamessweet]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 20:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=570#comment-12441</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Actually, it&#039;s not like either of those things.

It&#039;s more like if FTB had an atheist blogger that they were also paying to do tech support, and the blogger got sick and they decided to fire her, and the blogger tried to sue to get her job back, and FTB said, &quot;Mumble mumble, that doesn&#039;t count!&quot;

Let&#039;s be clear here, the question here is not whether the ministerial exemption is appropriate.  The question is on the limits of the ministerial exemption.  Randy Owens describes one possible limit to the ministerial exemption that would likely save Perich&#039;s case.  But we don&#039;t even need to get that far, &lt;i&gt;because Hosanna-Tabor didn&#039;t fire her because of her beliefs&lt;/i&gt;, they fired her because of something completely unrelated, and then tried to use the ministerial exemption as legal cover.  That&#039;s fucked up, and frankly, religious people should be a lot more pissed off about it than atheists, because it is making a complete mockery of the ministerial exemption.

&lt;i&gt;Even if&lt;/i&gt; you think, for example, Catholic schools should be able to discriminate on the basis of their dumb beliefs in hiring any employee -- even insisting that the janitor cannot be gay, for instance -- even if you think that, Hosanna-Tabor&#039;s actions are still fucked up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, it&#8217;s not like either of those things.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s more like if FTB had an atheist blogger that they were also paying to do tech support, and the blogger got sick and they decided to fire her, and the blogger tried to sue to get her job back, and FTB said, &#8220;Mumble mumble, that doesn&#8217;t count!&#8221;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be clear here, the question here is not whether the ministerial exemption is appropriate.  The question is on the limits of the ministerial exemption.  Randy Owens describes one possible limit to the ministerial exemption that would likely save Perich&#8217;s case.  But we don&#8217;t even need to get that far, <i>because Hosanna-Tabor didn&#8217;t fire her because of her beliefs</i>, they fired her because of something completely unrelated, and then tried to use the ministerial exemption as legal cover.  That&#8217;s fucked up, and frankly, religious people should be a lot more pissed off about it than atheists, because it is making a complete mockery of the ministerial exemption.</p>
<p><i>Even if</i> you think, for example, Catholic schools should be able to discriminate on the basis of their dumb beliefs in hiring any employee &#8212; even insisting that the janitor cannot be gay, for instance &#8212; even if you think that, Hosanna-Tabor&#8217;s actions are still fucked up.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Randy Owens		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/#comment-12440</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Randy Owens]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 20:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=570#comment-12440</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Yeah, this would be more like if FTB were to insist that all employees of its web host firm must be atheist (or at least agnostic, I suppose) rather than the actual bloggers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, this would be more like if FTB were to insist that all employees of its web host firm must be atheist (or at least agnostic, I suppose) rather than the actual bloggers.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/#comment-12439</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 16:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=570#comment-12439</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No.  And the government should not require a church to hire people who are not of the matching religion of the church!

That&#039;s not the point of this decision, though.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No.  And the government should not require a church to hire people who are not of the matching religion of the church!</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the point of this decision, though.</p>
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		<title>
		By: betasattva		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/10/03/church-state-separation-case-impending/#comment-12438</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[betasattva]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 16:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=570#comment-12438</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Do you think the government should require Freethoughtblogs to hire evangelical Christian writers?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think the government should require Freethoughtblogs to hire evangelical Christian writers?</p>
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