We have a licensure and strict car-control system in place, which both educates new drivers in the proper use of vehicles, and significantly reduces the number of fatal collisions by doing what’s reasonable to ensure that untrained or impaired individuals have minimal access to cars.

We have an elaborate system for penalties around unsafe use of cars, and we have extensive measures taken in the form of locks and keys to ensure that only the owner of the car – or an owner’s designated representative – will nominally be given any sort of control at all over the vehicle.

Will you accept having the same system in place for guns?

Bear in mind that I, as a gun owner, am willing to see much heavier measures taken against illicit gun ownership and use than are currently in place. Not all of us who own firearms suffer from the ‘from my cold dead hands’ psychosis.

There is yet ANOTHER DIFFERENT issue as well: the number of teens killed by gunshot wounds are probably bad kids in gangs shooting at each other PLUS good kids who happen to get shot in street violence of that kind. That’s a DIFFERENT kind of situation where getting dad to lock up his gun would have only a small effect because that is not where most of those guns come from.

So, Mu, here’s the thing. You get sick. You go to the dr. The dr. sais “Hey Mu, you’ve got a form of cancer that is quite deadly, not too common, but easily fixed. But, since other forms of equally deadly cancer are more common, we don’t even bother keeping the drugs for this kind of cancer that you’ve got aroun. It makes no sense to treat your cancer, so you’ve got 6 months to live, so make the most of it”

And you go “Hey, wait, so what if some other people have some other kind of cancer! What about me? I have a DIFFERENT problem, and it can be easily fixed! No fair!”

And the Dr goes. “Mu, do yo not remember that comment you made on The X Blog a while back, expressing cold indifference to the plight of children who die because of mishandled firearms in the home that should have been locked up?”

“.. But that’s differen’….”

“No, Mu, it is not different. It is the same exact situation. And since you made that comment, and I’m a Dr. who believes in Karma, I’m not going to …’

“… No, wait, I’m sorry” you say to the smug doctor. “I was just trying to make it so no one made me lock up my private gun collection. I don’t want anyone to touch my guns…”

And the doctor says, “Mu, do you love your guns?”

And you go “Yes, doctor, yes, I do love my guns!”

And the doctor says, “Well, then, you should have no problme.”

“You’re gonna treat my cancer?”

“No, Mu, I’m not.”

Perplexed look on Mu’s face.

“You love your guns, and I wont’ treat your cancer, so you face a painful, ugly death. I suggest that in about thee months you take your favorite gun out on a date. To the woods where you won’t make much of a mess…”

Sorry, Mu, we’ve been there, done that. What you just said in comment 35 is stupid, offensive, and makes you look like an idiot. And now maybe you know why. But somehow I doubt it.

I’m mentally unstable but was allowed to buy my first shotgun when I was twelve because my parents believed I was mature and steady enough for the responsibility. While nothing bad happened, it was really a pretty bad idea. It might not have been such a bad idea if my parents had kept the trigger mechanism locked up, but that didn’t even occur to them.

I know a number of people who appear to be as steady as can be, because they have learned to pretend they are stable. I learned to pretend I am stable when I was quite young – pretending well enough that *I* actually believed it. This is extremely common with kids who have these sorts of problems, because we want to fit in – at least to some degree or another. And of course there are mental illnesses that may not manifest until kids become teenagers.

I wanted to die when I was nine. It was only due to my stark terror of going to hell that prevented me from killing myself. Even with my stark terror of hell, I rigged up my shotgun a couple of times – convincing myself that I was just curious how someone might actually kill themselves with a shotgun or rifle. Maybe that was actually my intent, but it’s rather hard to support that belief when I damned well knew better than to muck about with a loaded shotgun.

People assume everyday that *their* children know better than to have sex. People assume everyday that *their* children would never use drugs or drink as a minor. People assume everyday that *their* children are stable, upbeat and positive. People assume everyday that because they “are doing it right,” their kids are magically going to be immune to the bad things that happen to the children of “bad” parents – and that the kids who do any of the above obviously have crappy parents.

The truth however, is that the children of parents who “do it right” still engage in somewhat dangerous behaviors. They screw, they use mind altering substances and even though they appear to be happy and stable, still commit suicide. Kids are a hell of a lot better at hiding what is actually going on with them, than most parents can begin to comprehend – largely because they don’t want to accept that their parenting isn’t perfect and because they don’t want to admit that no matter what they do or how well they do it, their children are autonomous beings who will make their own decisions – including bad ones.

My parents did it “right.” I had a stable, decent home where all my needs were met. My parents never left any ambiguity about their love for me. While I had some noticeable problems, they were normal teen problems and mitigated to some degree by my abilities as a peer counselor. The older I got, the more “normal” I appeared in many ways, excepting that I was very good at picking out the signs of suicidal ideation (never occurred to anyone to think about why that might be) and helping other kids deal with their bullshit. ]

Everything seemed reasonably normal until I dropped out of school and then took off hitchhiking, also starting a 17 odd year odyssey into substance abuse. I spent years engaging in dangerous and self-destructive behavior.

Point being, parents are quiet often completely clueless about what is actually happening in their children’s heads. Even open lines of communication, fostered by an environment of mutual respect and trust is no guarantee (though it certainly does help). Not taking basic precautions, simply because you don’t believe your children “know better” and are “stable, reasonable kids” is fucking stupid. Shit happens, including shit that you would never have seen coming.

The unfortunate thing about gun politics in this nation is that the 2nd amendment is about the only part of the Bill of Rights that much concerns the right wing. And despite the narrowness of that concern, they have used it to great effect.

I do understand the need to change how guns are stored depending on what children are around. A year ago, I was at a ranch with some grandchildren, and did some target shooting with a son-in-law. At which, one of the teenage grandkids looked at me as if I had landed from Mars, and remarked, “I didn’t know you shot!” Surprised, because she had previously lived with us.

The Constitution originally said nothing about marriage. It did say something about “Well-Regulated Militias.”

I don’t want guns banned, I just want to be able to register them, make sure people take safety courses, make stiffer penalties for when they are used in the commission of a crime, keep them away from people who would shout their teenagers who are sneaking back into the house stoned at two in the morning, keep them away from people who would shoot strangers who knock on the door when they show up at the wrong house accidentally.

I also think it is fucking stupid that the gun nuts who want to protect themselves from the government with a .38 handgun, protecting their “freedoms” deny the freedoms of same-sex partners who want legal recognition of their marriage.

What I find truly amazing and utterly maddening is this: Thousands of people die every year because of the NRA-loving interpretation of the Second Amendment. Suggesting that the Second Amendment be changed is impossible, politically. Meanwhile, suggesting that there be a constitutional amendment making it impossible for two people to get married if they are not a man and a woman is trivially easy, politically.

We live at present in a society in which the former is impossible, the latter is easy. My intention is to work towards change such that the reverse is true.

I’m saying that people who have guns in their home should have them under lock and key. You’re saying they don’t have to do that. We have different opinions. That’s not talking past each other.

My son and daughter (toddler and teenager) can’t get at the guns because they are locked firmly in a safe. I don’t think Julia is going to shoot herself or anyone else, and I’ll raise Huxley up to be a good boy.

You were under the impression that your kids were are will be or are ‘safe’ in this regard as well.

Many, many of the instances where guns were used in a way that left a kid, teenager, or young adult dead ivolved the guns not being locked up.

What you are saying, that we are talking past each other, is not true. What is true is that your guns are not locked up. That is the only important fact here. This is not “talking past each other.” It is just you leaving your guns accessible.

(I quickly add: In my case, the guns are not in my house, but in a seasonal house my kids spend a fair amount of time in.)