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	<title>
	Comments on: Utah Miscarriage Bill is a Miscarriage of Reason and Justice	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:51:41 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: P Smith		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11950</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 16:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11950</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John Moeller says: &lt;i&gt;&quot;What this is really doing is criminalizing pregnancy for poor women and underprivileged women.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

There&#039;s a similar anti-woman/anti-abortion &quot;law&quot; in the works in Montana (IIRC) or another sparsely populated state.  The rightwingnuts want to make it a law that a woman cannot have an abortion on the same day that she first meets with a doctor.  She has to come back for a second appointment.

If you&#039;re poor and live a long way from a city, a single trip is already going to be expensive.  Being forced to take a second trip to actually get an abortion will be near impossible for anyone except those with significant income.

.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Moeller says: <i>&#8220;What this is really doing is criminalizing pregnancy for poor women and underprivileged women.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a similar anti-woman/anti-abortion &#8220;law&#8221; in the works in Montana (IIRC) or another sparsely populated state.  The rightwingnuts want to make it a law that a woman cannot have an abortion on the same day that she first meets with a doctor.  She has to come back for a second appointment.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re poor and live a long way from a city, a single trip is already going to be expensive.  Being forced to take a second trip to actually get an abortion will be near impossible for anyone except those with significant income.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11949</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11949</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[John, exactly.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, exactly.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John Moeller		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11948</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John Moeller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 05:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11948</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I remember when this whole fracas started. This is still purely knee-jerk legislation.  It&#039;s all based around trying to prevent something that happened in *one incident*. Instead of trying to craft legislation based upon the real world, they followed their outrage. This is fabricating an epidemic out of one case. 

I&#039;d like to say that things would change if some sweet upper-middle class housewife got charged with this farce of a statute, but the husband&#039;s social connections would take care of things (there&#039;s an institutionalized good-old-boy network in Utah) and they&#039;d probably feel grateful to the system for &quot;protecting children.&quot; 

What this is really doing is criminalizing pregnancy for poor women and underprivileged women.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember when this whole fracas started. This is still purely knee-jerk legislation.  It&#8217;s all based around trying to prevent something that happened in *one incident*. Instead of trying to craft legislation based upon the real world, they followed their outrage. This is fabricating an epidemic out of one case. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to say that things would change if some sweet upper-middle class housewife got charged with this farce of a statute, but the husband&#8217;s social connections would take care of things (there&#8217;s an institutionalized good-old-boy network in Utah) and they&#8217;d probably feel grateful to the system for &#8220;protecting children.&#8221; </p>
<p>What this is really doing is criminalizing pregnancy for poor women and underprivileged women.</p>
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		<title>
		By: P Smith		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11947</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[P Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 18:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11947</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[scenario (#5): &lt;I&gt;&quot;Just say that her work puts the fetus in danger and if she suffers a miscarriage, prison sentence.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;This bill is an attack on traditional marriage.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

No, it&#039;s an attempt to terrify and terrorize women:  &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;&quot;Stay at home.  Don&#039;t work or go outside.  You belong to your husband.&quot;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

If a pregnant woman is driving, her car gets hit by another driver and the foetus is destroyed, who&#039;s going to be blamed?  It will be the woman, not the other driver who was at fault.

The message to women is clear: You&#039;re property, and your place is to be barefoot, ignorant and pregnant.  

.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>scenario (#5): <i>&#8220;Just say that her work puts the fetus in danger and if she suffers a miscarriage, prison sentence.</i></p>
<p><i>This bill is an attack on traditional marriage.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>No, it&#8217;s an attempt to terrify and terrorize women:  <i><b>&#8220;Stay at home.  Don&#8217;t work or go outside.  You belong to your husband.&#8221;</b></i></p>
<p>If a pregnant woman is driving, her car gets hit by another driver and the foetus is destroyed, who&#8217;s going to be blamed?  It will be the woman, not the other driver who was at fault.</p>
<p>The message to women is clear: You&#8217;re property, and your place is to be barefoot, ignorant and pregnant.  </p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11946</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Giliell, connaiseuse des choses bonnes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11946</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Just say that her work puts the fetus in danger and if she suffers a miscarriage, prison sentence. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
You know, Germany has a law like that. Only it doesn&#039;t threaten a woman with prison, it means that healthcare has to keep on paying her wages so she actually doesn&#039;t have to chose between eating or suffering a miscarriage.
German abortion law is fucked up (I&#039;ll give you details if you want them), but the prenatal care is rather good because it actually pays attention to getting both parties out there alive and kicking. So, if her work would put the fetus in danger, all she has to do is to inform her employer, so they might find her a different position, or if that isn&#039;t possible, go to her doctor who will then put her on a kind of &quot;sick leave&quot;. But the choice is hers. 

Having said that: this bill is fucked up crazy and cruel. Up to 20% of all pregnancies result in a miscarriage, quite often to women who wanted to have a baby. To put women who are probably already mourning, who are asking themselves &quot;what did I do wrong, what could I have done different&quot; under suspicion is sick.

Apart from the obvious fact that it&#039;s my body and not theirs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Just say that her work puts the fetus in danger and if she suffers a miscarriage, prison sentence. </p></blockquote>
<p>You know, Germany has a law like that. Only it doesn&#8217;t threaten a woman with prison, it means that healthcare has to keep on paying her wages so she actually doesn&#8217;t have to chose between eating or suffering a miscarriage.<br />
German abortion law is fucked up (I&#8217;ll give you details if you want them), but the prenatal care is rather good because it actually pays attention to getting both parties out there alive and kicking. So, if her work would put the fetus in danger, all she has to do is to inform her employer, so they might find her a different position, or if that isn&#8217;t possible, go to her doctor who will then put her on a kind of &#8220;sick leave&#8221;. But the choice is hers. </p>
<p>Having said that: this bill is fucked up crazy and cruel. Up to 20% of all pregnancies result in a miscarriage, quite often to women who wanted to have a baby. To put women who are probably already mourning, who are asking themselves &#8220;what did I do wrong, what could I have done different&#8221; under suspicion is sick.</p>
<p>Apart from the obvious fact that it&#8217;s my body and not theirs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: scenario		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11945</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[scenario]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 02:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11945</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How long before conservative Doctors use this to force woman out of the workforce?  Just say that her work puts the fetus in danger and if she suffers a miscarriage, prison sentence. 

This bill is an attack on traditional marriage. :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How long before conservative Doctors use this to force woman out of the workforce?  Just say that her work puts the fetus in danger and if she suffers a miscarriage, prison sentence. </p>
<p>This bill is an attack on traditional marriage. 🙂</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cor (formerly evil)		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11944</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cor (formerly evil)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 02:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11944</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg:
Worst. Pun. Ever.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg:<br />
Worst. Pun. Ever.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11943</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Sep 2011 01:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11943</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Utah does not put the U in Uterus, I&#039;m afraid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Utah does not put the U in Uterus, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ibis3, fÃ©ministe avec un titre franÃ§aise de fantaisie		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11942</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ibis3, fÃ©ministe avec un titre franÃ§aise de fantaisie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 23:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11942</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry unbound, I don&#039;t care if a billionaire wants to put up money to raise the kid in the lap of luxury. My uterus is mine and no one can force me to remain pregnant if I don&#039;t want to, thank you very much.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry unbound, I don&#8217;t care if a billionaire wants to put up money to raise the kid in the lap of luxury. My uterus is mine and no one can force me to remain pregnant if I don&#8217;t want to, thank you very much.</p>
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		<title>
		By: unbound		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/09/27/utah-miscarriage-bill-is-a-miscarriage-of-reason-and-justice/#comment-11941</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[unbound]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Sep 2011 23:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://freethoughtblogs.com/xblog/?p=456#comment-11941</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And, yet, when police brutalize a person to death, they get to walk away with nary a slap on the wrist?  Not intentional enough in those cases?

Melissa Bird had it dead on in the article.  The real world is nothing like the ideal world.  Police rarely know with great certainty which tale is true, and, as we find out over the years, a great number of people are thrown on jail only to be proven innocent years later via DNA or other methods.

We need to make these xtian fundies accountable for their nonsense.  The law needs to be something closer to any person raising an objection to an abortion will be required to fund that childs existence up to and including the college of that child&#039;s choice.  So sick and tired of people trying to tell and legislate what others do when they have no skin in the game.  Put up or shut up.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, yet, when police brutalize a person to death, they get to walk away with nary a slap on the wrist?  Not intentional enough in those cases?</p>
<p>Melissa Bird had it dead on in the article.  The real world is nothing like the ideal world.  Police rarely know with great certainty which tale is true, and, as we find out over the years, a great number of people are thrown on jail only to be proven innocent years later via DNA or other methods.</p>
<p>We need to make these xtian fundies accountable for their nonsense.  The law needs to be something closer to any person raising an objection to an abortion will be required to fund that childs existence up to and including the college of that child&#8217;s choice.  So sick and tired of people trying to tell and legislate what others do when they have no skin in the game.  Put up or shut up.</p>
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