Comments on: Hudson River Fish Evolve To Handle PCBs

By: John Delano

John Delano — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:49:26 +0000

As soon as the Pcp’s were disturbed the water smell of the hudson River changes and the Shad and the Herring did not recognize this different “smelling” river as a place to lay eggs.

Check Black creek in Ulster County. The “Herring are gone.”

This pcp dreging is minor compared to the “fiasco” we will see with “The Marcellus shale fracking.”

By: dean

dean — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 19:02:53 +0000

Here in Michigan we have multiple problems. Rivers around Midland (Tittabawassee River near Midland, in particular)has been contaminated with PCBs (thanks Dow Chemical). Dredging seems to be the primary response, but it’s been going on for some time.
Locally (Kalamazoo/Portage and surrounding areas) we have the legacy of multiple paper mills to deal with: the Kalamazoo River and a bit of Portage Creek are contaminated with PCBs. Most of the mills are closed (have been for many years to several years), so getting funds from the companies for cleanup is a struggle. Dredging is still going on.
Sadly, it seems that a good part of the legacy of economic boom is contaminated land, water, and wildlife.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 15:35:53 +0000

Years ago I worked on the construction of a kiln that would insinerate the PCB’s. It was built on an island right in the hotspot on the river for PCB’s. I am pretty sure the PCB’s were dredged out of that part of the river to reduce their density. However, that was literally right outside the plant where not dredging them up would mean a thousand years of seepage.

Otherwise they are everywhere along the thalweg of that river, at density, for dozens of miles below the plant.

I don’t think having the PCB adaptation itself is a problem.

Over two or three trophic levels, the PCB is concentrated, but I do wonder if the tomcod initially disperse the PCB. It depends on what they are eating. And, I’d like to know if the inverts the cod are eating have a similar PCB-tolerant gene!

By: mrrgl

mrrgl — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:42:35 +0000

@douglas watts; that’s a really good point. This resistance gene could create many more problems than it solves if the result is making a stronger ecological link between the contaminated sediment to more sensitive species via the tomcod. Really a huge problem when you get down to it.

By: mrrgl

mrrgl — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 07:38:55 +0000

There is really no way to clean up the PCBs is the trouble. Only way to get at the problem is to dredge the river, which will cause a massive exposure spike. As it is, the PCBs are mostly bound up in the sediment and not causing immediate problems, at least nothing compared to the scale of problems a dredging program would create.

Some outside the box thinking = use the PCB resistant fish as PCB sponges. Introduce them, let them bioaccumulate the stuff, catch em and incinerate them.

By: Drivebyposter

Drivebyposter — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:44:54 +0000

Thanks for fixing it Greg. No need to apologize, it was outside of your control and you addressed the problem promptly. Thank you again.

And about the fish…
Is this fish problem more or less permanent? Or would cleaning up the PCB and reintroducing non-PCB resistant fish more or less solve the problem?

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 05:04:58 +0000

Evolution Denier, I just deleted every single one of your comments going all the way back.

Drivebyposter, sorry that happened to you. It might take a while for his comments to all disappear because there were quite a few of them, and I had to press the “rebuild the site” button.

Everybody else, if you take another commenter’s name and use it, you are persona non gratis here. Not that you would, but still…. I can’t believe I actually have to say this. Jeesh.

By: Drivebyposter

Drivebyposter — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:48:17 +0000

Wow.
Again, that last post is not by me.

By: Douglas Watts

Douglas Watts — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 02:50:21 +0000

I’m quite familiar with tomcod. They are very cute little fish that are native to the estuaries of coastal Maine and Massachusetts. They are also called ‘frost-fish’ because they swim up river to spawn in the dead of winter and are often caught along with rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax) in ‘smelt camps’ on the lower Kennebec River in Maine. What the story does not say is whether the animals and fish that eat PCB-contaminated tomcod, like osprey or bald eagles or striped bass, have evolved ways to make the PCBs non-toxic. If not, it is even worse. What say ye?

By: Drivebyposter

Drivebyposter — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 06:31:24 +0000

That last post that is supposed to be by me, is not. I’m assuming it was soiled loincloth who uh…sort of hijacked my name for a moment. Worst of all, they did a very poor job of it. And the name links to prisonplanet.

Greg, could you delete the last comment under my name? I’m sure the IP will match loincloth’s or at the very least not match mine…though mine probably switches around frequently. Thanks.