I’m not a Christian, so it’s nothing about that. But you have to put things in perspective – you mentioned those who are not American citizens saying this pledge. Every individual who is not a citizen in this country that I’ve met wants to be, and proudly says the pledge whenever given the opportunity. And every single other nation demands the same of their citizens.
If you don’t like the “Under God” part? Don’t say it – no one will force you and no one clips on a microphone on your shirt every morning when you’re a teacher or a student to make sure you said every word of the pledge. Case in point, I have attended Catholic church for weddings and for funerals in the last few months. When it’s time to abide by the rules of the mass, I remain seated in my seat and do not say any of the prayers. No one takes me in a back room and scolds me. And yes, this wouldn’t have been tolerated when I was in Catholic school, but this isn’t even an issue in public school in NY, so it’s somewhat futile to discuss?

In conclusion, as I mentioned, I respect your opinion and commend your conviction in an issue, as passion in anything is quite lacking in the masses in recent years. But I plan on fostering a sense of the true nature of what it is to protest – to refuse to donate to an organization who supports hateful discrimination against gays and lesbians, to respect and accept her Christian friends as well as her atheist friends respectfully and equally even when others make fun of her, and to not buy products that support cruelty to animals. I would feel that forcing this issue of refusing to say the pledge would give it more credence than it’s really worth as an issue.

My perspective is that it is absurd to brainwash children to recite oaths when they don’t even know what “pledge” means or how to spell it. And that to start kindergarten with repetition of words that are not understood, in the form of an oath, is conditioning children to LYING and CONFORMITY from the start.

And so I search on the internet for other perspectives, and I find that many here are mad just because of the God part. Don’t worry, simpletons, the god of America is not the God of the Bible that you hate so much. America’s god is seen on the back of the dollar bill, it is the eye. And the obelisk. You know, that thing that they call the Washington Monument? That thing that you see in so many of your towns, in your graveyards, in front of your government buildings. Not offended by that god so much, huh? You never noticed his symbols, and they never bothered you. And now that you know they are religious symbols, you still don’t mind. Are you going to have the obelisks sawed down? Oh no, it’s only Christianity you hate, for the darkness HATES the light.

Regarding your god of the obelisk and the eye, he doesn’t mind abortion, in fact, he likes it. Always has, ever since he operated under the name of molech. And your precious obelisk, it represents the fornication and adultery of the immoral..it always has.

The future is one of payment. You will be paying. Have you not studied history at all? Do you think that the soft, impertinent, and opinionated simpletons of this country are somehow special in the long course of history? That war and suffering and pain will not come here as it comes everywhere else? Then you will cry out for God, and when your enemies are in your midst, all of your atheist philosophies will go out of the window.

And even if you don’t experience that war in your lifetime (perhaps you are too old), when you are on your death bed, what do you think will be the thought that plagues your last moments? Do you think it will be about how smart you are, or how you, a speck with a speck sized brain figured out all of the secrets of the universe and concluded that you were the master? I don’t think so.

So, while this post was supposed to be about brainwashing children, which I agree is inappropriate, I find that much of the interest is really about how much you hate God. And like I said, don’t worry, the god you serve and the god whose symbols you operate under is not the God of the Bible, but rather Lucifer. So maybe you’ll feel better about the pledge after all.

“If there was a controlling power outside the universe, it could not show itself to us as one of the facts inside the universe – – no more than the architect of a house could actually be a wall or staircase in that house.”

How is it that so many amateur apologists think this analogy makes sense? An architect of a house can show up to a house and say “hi” if he cares for the inhabitants. He can even live there. He doesn’t have to be a staircase to drop by for lunch.

“I think we have to assume it is more like a MIND than it is like anything else we know – because after all the other only thing we know is MATTER and you can hardly imagine matter giving instructions.”

Of course, naturalists don’t usually deny the existence of minds, they just claim minds are made of or instantiated in matter. If you want to argue against that position, you have to argue that mind and matter are both substances and are *different* substances. And “you can hardly imagine matter doing mind stuff” is not much of an argument, since I find it very easy to imagine such a thing.

C.S. Lewis is so famous as an apologist and yet he’s one of the worst ones. What a shame.

You share a country with a lot of different kinds of people. It’s a fairly large area that has about 300 million people on it, and they aren’t all like you. Welcome to the planet Earth; it’s like that all over, and maybe more so in the U.S. than a lot of places.

“Don’t even say that you are a true patriot. Saying there should be no pledge is like saying you’re fine with kids growing up showing no patriotism.”

I wish. I mean, it’s one thing for people to care about the well-being of their communities and fellow citizens, and about the functioning of their government. That’s all fine and dandy. But what a lot of people call “patriotism” in the U.S. is a sort of glorified nepotism. “If you’re not an American, screw you.” That kind of so-called patriotism is morally wrong.

“I refuse to use explicit language so right now the worse thing I can call you is a LIBERAL.”

Oooh. Must have taken a lot of Fox News to convince you that that was an insult. Hey, this is a site primarily for atheists, right? So next time you should call everyone ATHEISTS as in insult. I’m sure that would come across as clever and not at all immature or deranged.

USA