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	Comments on: Among Cannibals	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/</link>
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		<title>
		By: northierthanthou		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506873</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[northierthanthou]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2015 22:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506873</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I figure cannibal stories are a bit like the skinwalker stories I used to hear in Navajo country. Whatever the truth of any factual claims in those stories, they do reflect some interesting psychological realities. People tell such stories precisely because they seem to objectify their most cynical thoughts about how the people around them actually behave. If there is a difference it&#039;s that the skinwalker stories are about how people actually live. Cannibalism is always projected onto someone out there in the hinterlands.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I figure cannibal stories are a bit like the skinwalker stories I used to hear in Navajo country. Whatever the truth of any factual claims in those stories, they do reflect some interesting psychological realities. People tell such stories precisely because they seem to objectify their most cynical thoughts about how the people around them actually behave. If there is a difference it&#8217;s that the skinwalker stories are about how people actually live. Cannibalism is always projected onto someone out there in the hinterlands.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506872</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 16:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506872</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Greg, I wonder, do you think something like this explains the theophagy of Christians? No, I am not suggesting a cultural connection between the two, just asking if there was anything like it in other &quot;primitive&quot; cultures in Europe/Eurasia?&lt;/em&gt;

Hard to say, but the archaeology of the neolithic in the near east suggests a widespread and long term fascination with skulls in some areas. They were removed from the dead, cleaned up, decorated, and put in niches in people&#039;s houses, for instance, at many sites. 

&lt;em&gt;BTW I understand there are people with differences with Chagnon but as I understand it his observations of Yanomamo culture are still considered pretty darn good. Correct me if I am wrong.&lt;/em&gt;

There are people with VERY STRONG differences and they fight all the time, but I&#039;ve not seen any meaningful differences between other anthropologists&#039; data and Chagnon&#039;s, though there is variation among the Yan, of course. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Greg, I wonder, do you think something like this explains the theophagy of Christians? No, I am not suggesting a cultural connection between the two, just asking if there was anything like it in other &#8220;primitive&#8221; cultures in Europe/Eurasia?</em></p>
<p>Hard to say, but the archaeology of the neolithic in the near east suggests a widespread and long term fascination with skulls in some areas. They were removed from the dead, cleaned up, decorated, and put in niches in people&#8217;s houses, for instance, at many sites. </p>
<p><em>BTW I understand there are people with differences with Chagnon but as I understand it his observations of Yanomamo culture are still considered pretty darn good. Correct me if I am wrong.</em></p>
<p>There are people with VERY STRONG differences and they fight all the time, but I&#8217;ve not seen any meaningful differences between other anthropologists&#8217; data and Chagnon&#8217;s, though there is variation among the Yan, of course. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Jesse		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506871</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jesse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 15:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506871</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I recall reading Napoleon Chagnon that he mentioned the Yanomamo eating the bone-infusion of their dead relatives in certain very specific ritual contexts. But it was nothing like the stereotypical cannibalism of &quot;savages&quot; eating enemies. IIRC it was considered an insult to your revered ancestor if you did not partake. But the whole ritual, again, was only in very specific times and places. 

Greg, I wonder, do you think something like this explains the theophagy of Christians? No, I am not suggesting a cultural connection between the two, just asking if there was anything like it in other &quot;primitive&quot; cultures in Europe/Eurasia? 

At one level it seems like a pretty good adaptation to living in an environment where burial is problematic -- or at least a huge pain to do. (Jungles -- forests generally -- are hard to dig in, what with the root network and all). I understand that cultural practices are not always tied to how practical they are (again, see Chagnon on the penis bands that were common accoutrements of the Yanomamo. While the men did not always like wearing them, they would not get caught without it, rather like men in our culture once always wore a hat to be considered well-dressed). 

BTW I understand there are people with differences with Chagnon but as I understand it his observations of Yanomamo culture are still considered pretty darn good. Correct me if I am wrong. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall reading Napoleon Chagnon that he mentioned the Yanomamo eating the bone-infusion of their dead relatives in certain very specific ritual contexts. But it was nothing like the stereotypical cannibalism of &#8220;savages&#8221; eating enemies. IIRC it was considered an insult to your revered ancestor if you did not partake. But the whole ritual, again, was only in very specific times and places. </p>
<p>Greg, I wonder, do you think something like this explains the theophagy of Christians? No, I am not suggesting a cultural connection between the two, just asking if there was anything like it in other &#8220;primitive&#8221; cultures in Europe/Eurasia? </p>
<p>At one level it seems like a pretty good adaptation to living in an environment where burial is problematic &#8212; or at least a huge pain to do. (Jungles &#8212; forests generally &#8212; are hard to dig in, what with the root network and all). I understand that cultural practices are not always tied to how practical they are (again, see Chagnon on the penis bands that were common accoutrements of the Yanomamo. While the men did not always like wearing them, they would not get caught without it, rather like men in our culture once always wore a hat to be considered well-dressed). </p>
<p>BTW I understand there are people with differences with Chagnon but as I understand it his observations of Yanomamo culture are still considered pretty darn good. Correct me if I am wrong. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Wanda		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506870</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Aug 2011 00:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506870</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg: The local prion lab autoclaves their instruments in bleach for hours, because just plain autoclaving them doesn&#039;t work. Ordinary cooking techniques might reduce the number of infectious prion particles but would probably not get rid of them entirely, and you don&#039;t need very many to develop health problems.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg: The local prion lab autoclaves their instruments in bleach for hours, because just plain autoclaving them doesn&#8217;t work. Ordinary cooking techniques might reduce the number of infectious prion particles but would probably not get rid of them entirely, and you don&#8217;t need very many to develop health problems.</p>
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		<title>
		By: pornonymous		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506869</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pornonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 16:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506869</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for that. I am a big believer in language evolution;-)

Your premise here is one I never considered, and it makes me question some of what I have heard about Asians. I once head that Taiwanese aboriginals were cannibals, but the last I knew it was some european writing about the Chinese eating cannibals. Again, during the early parts of this century, that was extrapolated into all the Chinese being cannibals.

And wolf spiders? I&#039;ll Google it. Seems like I can use that somewhere...But on the bigger question I was asking is about those older females cannibalizing those younger, horny males in the blogosphere....hehehe

 ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that. I am a big believer in language evolution;-)</p>
<p>Your premise here is one I never considered, and it makes me question some of what I have heard about Asians. I once head that Taiwanese aboriginals were cannibals, but the last I knew it was some european writing about the Chinese eating cannibals. Again, during the early parts of this century, that was extrapolated into all the Chinese being cannibals.</p>
<p>And wolf spiders? I&#8217;ll Google it. Seems like I can use that somewhere&#8230;But on the bigger question I was asking is about those older females cannibalizing those younger, horny males in the blogosphere&#8230;.hehehe</p>
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		<title>
		By: Raging Bee		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Raging Bee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Yes, you are definitely (a lot) over-PC here but I don&#039;t mind it, it&#039;s good for the laughs. And duh, tribe means what the people who use it think it means.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, I see &quot;Toiletman&quot; is eagerly living down to his chosen name.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Yes, you are definitely (a lot) over-PC here but I don&#8217;t mind it, it&#8217;s good for the laughs. And duh, tribe means what the people who use it think it means.</i></p>
<p>Well, I see &#8220;Toiletman&#8221; is eagerly living down to his chosen name.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Real ladykillers: Male wolf spiders cannibalise older females past their reproductive prime&quot;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1376196/Real-ladykillers-Male-wolf-spiders-cannibalise-older-females-past-reproductive-prime.html#ixzz1UXVH8fDc&quot;

That is not an insect, but it&#039;s the first thing I found.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Real ladykillers: Male wolf spiders cannibalise older females past their reproductive prime&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1376196/Real-ladykillers-Male-wolf-spiders-cannibalise-older-females-past-reproductive-prime.html#ixzz1UXVH8fDc" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1376196/Real-ladykillers-Male-wolf-spiders-cannibalise-older-females-past-reproductive-prime.html#ixzz1UXVH8fDc</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>That is not an insect, but it&#8217;s the first thing I found.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 14:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Porn: Yes to the language stuff, no as far as I know to the insect questions.  But it could happen.  I&#039;ll check around. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Porn: Yes to the language stuff, no as far as I know to the insect questions.  But it could happen.  I&#8217;ll check around. </p>
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		<title>
		By: pornonymous		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506865</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[pornonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 11:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506865</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@42 Stephanie
In all fairness Steph--are there any insect species where the male eats the female after mating? In the mantis, etc. it is always the female eating the male after breeding, and as far as I know that is universal. 

Greg? Anyone? Is there a species where the males eat the females, and is there a species where the males eat the females after mating?

And Greg, @ &quot;meaning is a thing generated in the listener, not the speaker&quot;

But evolution predicts that in the exchange of language from one person to another,both are affected, i.e. for example,  even the speaker in speaking is aware on some level of verbal and nonverbal cues from the listener--and the listener is not merely a static receiver or recipient.

So language evolves in each interaction, and meaning, even in the speaker is not necessarily static.  

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@42 Stephanie<br />
In all fairness Steph&#8211;are there any insect species where the male eats the female after mating? In the mantis, etc. it is always the female eating the male after breeding, and as far as I know that is universal. </p>
<p>Greg? Anyone? Is there a species where the males eat the females, and is there a species where the males eat the females after mating?</p>
<p>And Greg, @ &#8220;meaning is a thing generated in the listener, not the speaker&#8221;</p>
<p>But evolution predicts that in the exchange of language from one person to another,both are affected, i.e. for example,  even the speaker in speaking is aware on some level of verbal and nonverbal cues from the listener&#8211;and the listener is not merely a static receiver or recipient.</p>
<p>So language evolves in each interaction, and meaning, even in the speaker is not necessarily static.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506864</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 09:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/08/07/among-cannibals/#comment-506864</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Brian:  It&#039;s hard to tell.  The Fijians, Tongans, Maori, and probably even the (pre-Cook(ed)) Hawaiians certainly taunted their enemies with talk about what they&#039;d do to them after killing them. You can imagine a Maori warrior yelling at the other guy: &quot;I&#039;ll toast your nuts on the camp fire and have &#039;em for a snack!&quot; but whether or not they ever did as they said is another matter.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brian:  It&#8217;s hard to tell.  The Fijians, Tongans, Maori, and probably even the (pre-Cook(ed)) Hawaiians certainly taunted their enemies with talk about what they&#8217;d do to them after killing them. You can imagine a Maori warrior yelling at the other guy: &#8220;I&#8217;ll toast your nuts on the camp fire and have &#8217;em for a snack!&#8221; but whether or not they ever did as they said is another matter.</p>
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