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	Comments on: Japan Nuclear Disaster Update 32: &#8220;Biggest Industrial Catastrophe in History&#8221;	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:31:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: cairne.morane		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505933</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cairne.morane]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 19:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505933</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;This implies that the removal of nuclear material from Chernobyl was easier.&quot;

In a sense it was, in that the nuclear material in reactor four at Chernobyl essentially removed itself.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This implies that the removal of nuclear material from Chernobyl was easier.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a sense it was, in that the nuclear material in reactor four at Chernobyl essentially removed itself.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505932</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505932</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m reading a very interesting book (citation below.) The authors&#039; purpose was to probe why the U.S., being a democracy, allowed its multibillion-dollar investment in nuclear power to fail as it did. They concluded that the scaleup during the late 1960s to plants rated at 1GWe or more made the AEC shift its safety strategy from containing accidents to preventing them â?? and paradoxically made it impossible to prove accidents could be absolutely prevented.

(Their argument is more sophisticated than that; I&#039;m trying to be as concise as possible.)

Another point they make is that Japan and France, although democracies, allow less day-to-day public involvement in government decisions â?? which is why they were able to push nuclear power farther than most other Western nations.

&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;The Demise of Nuclear Energy?&lt;/b&gt;
Lessons for Democratic Control of Technology&lt;/i&gt;
Joseph G. Morone &amp; Edward J. Woodhouse
New Haven: Yale University Press, 1989]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reading a very interesting book (citation below.) The authors&#8217; purpose was to probe why the U.S., being a democracy, allowed its multibillion-dollar investment in nuclear power to fail as it did. They concluded that the scaleup during the late 1960s to plants rated at 1GWe or more made the AEC shift its safety strategy from containing accidents to preventing them â?? and paradoxically made it impossible to prove accidents could be absolutely prevented.</p>
<p>(Their argument is more sophisticated than that; I&#8217;m trying to be as concise as possible.)</p>
<p>Another point they make is that Japan and France, although democracies, allow less day-to-day public involvement in government decisions â?? which is why they were able to push nuclear power farther than most other Western nations.</p>
<p><i><b>The Demise of Nuclear Energy?</b><br />
Lessons for Democratic Control of Technology</i><br />
Joseph G. Morone &#038; Edward J. Woodhouse<br />
New Haven: Yale University Press, 1989</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chris Winter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris Winter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg and Ana:

Thanks for assembling and posting these updates; they&#039;re important.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg and Ana:</p>
<p>Thanks for assembling and posting these updates; they&#8217;re important.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 18:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Throw stuff?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throw stuff?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Pierce R. Butler		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505929</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pierce R. Butler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 17:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505929</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg @ # 12: &lt;i&gt;We should probably not be laughing about nuclear meltdowns anyway.&lt;/i&gt;

Our other options being ... ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg @ # 12: <i>We should probably not be laughing about nuclear meltdowns anyway.</i></p>
<p>Our other options being &#8230; ?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505928</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 16:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505928</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Greg @ # 8 - I know I got trouble when a comment ending in a joke immediately meets with a call for a sense of humor...&lt;/em&gt;

OK, I&#039;ll take it down a notch.  We should probably not be laughing about nuclear meltdowns anyway. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Greg @ # 8 &#8211; I know I got trouble when a comment ending in a joke immediately meets with a call for a sense of humor&#8230;</em></p>
<p>OK, I&#8217;ll take it down a notch.  We should probably not be laughing about nuclear meltdowns anyway. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Pierce R. Butler		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505927</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pierce R. Butler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505927</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg @ # 8 - I know I got trouble when a comment ending in a joke immediately meets with a call for a sense of humor...

Ana @ # 9 - Yes, that does raise some ominous implications - &quot;clarify&quot; has some impressively awesome Orwellian overtones. At minimum, these monitors will be feeding their findings to PR flacks; at max, who knows? (Though I&#039;d think that when bookstore shelves overflow with antinuke screeds, the futility of chasing bloggers would seem self-evident; of course, whoever&#039;s blocking tweets &amp; YT videos may not see it that way.) 

For police to be assigned &quot;unlimited&quot; authority to patrol the &#039;tubes on behalf of Tokyo Electric raises several questions, including whether anyone&#039;s threatening TEPCO et al with illegal activity (haven&#039;t heard anything about that, though I&#039;ve missed some of yr updates here); what limits they previously operated under; whether some sort of Japanese Civil Liberties Union will do anything about this; and how this will influence William Gibson&#039;s next novel.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg @ # 8 &#8211; I know I got trouble when a comment ending in a joke immediately meets with a call for a sense of humor&#8230;</p>
<p>Ana @ # 9 &#8211; Yes, that does raise some ominous implications &#8211; &#8220;clarify&#8221; has some impressively awesome Orwellian overtones. At minimum, these monitors will be feeding their findings to PR flacks; at max, who knows? (Though I&#8217;d think that when bookstore shelves overflow with antinuke screeds, the futility of chasing bloggers would seem self-evident; of course, whoever&#8217;s blocking tweets &#038; YT videos may not see it that way.) </p>
<p>For police to be assigned &#8220;unlimited&#8221; authority to patrol the &#8216;tubes on behalf of Tokyo Electric raises several questions, including whether anyone&#8217;s threatening TEPCO et al with illegal activity (haven&#8217;t heard anything about that, though I&#8217;ve missed some of yr updates here); what limits they previously operated under; whether some sort of Japanese Civil Liberties Union will do anything about this; and how this will influence William Gibson&#8217;s next novel.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sadpanda		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505926</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sadpanda]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505926</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &quot;Biggest Industrial Catastrophe in History&quot; ? 
Not even close, see: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bhopal disaster&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Banqiao Dam&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/24/987836/-Were-the-Japanese-Engineers-Who-Built-Fukushima-Incompetent&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Were the Japanese Engineers Who Built Fukushima Incompetent?&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Biggest Industrial Catastrophe in History&#8221; ?<br />
Not even close, see: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster" rel="nofollow">Bhopal disaster</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam" rel="nofollow">Banqiao Dam</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/24/987836/-Were-the-Japanese-Engineers-Who-Built-Fukushima-Incompetent" rel="nofollow">Were the Japanese Engineers Who Built Fukushima Incompetent?</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Ana		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ana]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 07:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Pierce R. Butler:  I can&#039;t copy and paste entire articles here - there is always more to the story through the provided link (though I do try hard to pull out the key points).  The story you are stuck on, for instance, ends this way: &quot;The question is, will METI draw the line at â??clarifyingâ? erroneous information, or will it act to clamp down and suppress sources of information that it finds inconvenient?&quot;

METI is contracting internet monitors (â??The Contractor is required to monitor blogs on nuclear power and radiation issues as well as Twitter accounts (monitoring tweets is essential) around the clock, and conduct research and analysis on incorrect and inappropriate information that would lead to false rumors, and to report such internet accounts to the Agency,) and there is now a law that allows the police to monitor internet activity &quot;without restriction.&quot;  The author wonders how this will play out.  I suspect we shall see.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Pierce R. Butler:  I can&#8217;t copy and paste entire articles here &#8211; there is always more to the story through the provided link (though I do try hard to pull out the key points).  The story you are stuck on, for instance, ends this way: &#8220;The question is, will METI draw the line at â??clarifyingâ? erroneous information, or will it act to clamp down and suppress sources of information that it finds inconvenient?&#8221;</p>
<p>METI is contracting internet monitors (â??The Contractor is required to monitor blogs on nuclear power and radiation issues as well as Twitter accounts (monitoring tweets is essential) around the clock, and conduct research and analysis on incorrect and inappropriate information that would lead to false rumors, and to report such internet accounts to the Agency,) and there is now a law that allows the police to monitor internet activity &#8220;without restriction.&#8221;  The author wonders how this will play out.  I suspect we shall see.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505924</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/28/in-the-old-days-this/#comment-505924</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sense of humor, sense of proportion, please.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sense of humor, sense of proportion, please.</p>
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