Comments on: The Origin of Wine https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/ Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:09:25 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.8 By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505896 Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:09:25 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505896 George, thanks for the input and I’m sure you’re right. But I know of these other Georgians who use the big glass for the Vodka.

Of course, they are archaeologists so that could be the reason.

]]> By: George https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505895 Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:02:05 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505895 “And one of the problems the Russians gave to Georgia is, of course, Vodka”.

Georgians very seldom drink vodka during the feast as Russian do. Vodka- “araki” or grappa “Chacha” in Georgian, is drunk from small glasses usually in winter or in Mountainous regions of Georgia.

]]> By: daedalus2u https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505894 Tue, 23 Aug 2011 04:03:42 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505894 The first fermented foods were likely not alcohol generating. Lactic acid fermentation is pretty common.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956713597000753

and is probably a better way to preserve food than fermentation to alcohol, alcohol content needs to be pretty high to inhibit spoilage. Low pH can do the same thing but with less calorie loss and can be used to preserve vegetables (and vitamin C) and proteins (pickled fish). Low pH also kills many pathogens.

]]> By: hoary puccoon https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505893 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:30:42 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505893 I worked on a neolithic archaeological site one summer. If I recall correctly, pottery showed up in a layer that was about 7000 years old. And this was on a remote Greek island that never had much of a population center, so it must have been a widespread technology at that time.

]]> By: Amber https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505892 Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:19:27 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505892 As the author of the “annoying” Wikipedia line, I think you misunderstood what it is stating. It is not stating that wine lead to humanity or what not.

Rather, it is saying that the history of wine *is influenced by* the history of agriculture, cuisine, civilization and humanity. It is so closely intertwined that you can’t really get a full scope on the history of wine without understanding the history of the other four since they all influenced how wine developed.

In fact, if anything the article implies that wine doesn’t exist without humanity, not the other way around.

But, anyone can read into text what they wish to read into, and I apologize for the annoyance. However, you are free to recommend a better way of conveying those sentiments and I encourage you to post on the article’s talk page with your thoughts on this or any other Wikipedia article that you find annoying or confusing.

]]> By: Eric Lund https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505891 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 15:28:22 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505891 One other thing which doesn’t seem to be covered in the post is the question of safe hydration. For much of human history and in many places, local water supplies were not guaranteed to be safe. There is a reason that turning water into wine is listed among the miracles attributed to Yeshua bin Yosef: wine was safe to drink (the alcohol kills certain harmful bacteria) but water, at that time and place, was not. The Chinese hit upon a different solution to this problem: tea (boiling the water is another way to make it safe to drink). Sewage systems and water treatments were great advances in human technology precisely because they allow people access to drinkable water without the dehydrating side effects of ethanol or caffeine.

]]> By: Sean https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505890 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 14:22:35 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505890 There is an interesting map om a similar subject here http://bigthink.com/ideas/21495

which splits Europe into Alcohol consumption bands (spirits, beer and wine).

]]> By: Greg Laden https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505889 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:02:07 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505889 Achrachno, I had no idea there were so many wild North American grapes. Concord grapes are, of course, a cultivar. In any event, grapes did disperse from the Old World to the New World and I’ll continue to invoke birds as a distinct possibility. Or are you suggesting that they predate 65mya or so and were present when the Atlantic was closed? Could be, I suppose.

Splatter, I think it may also have been part of the plan to have a southern port free of ice all year round. And the vacation spots on the sea.

]]> By: SplatterPatterns https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505888 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 08:51:47 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505888 Living on nearly the same latitude as St. Petersberg, I can understand the Russian fixation with the Georgian Republic. Viticulture, even with a warming world, fails if one lacks a greenhouse. Itâ??s the wine, I tells ya.

Not only binds and small mammals become intoxicated. In late November several years ago, a mature bull moose in downtown Anchorage (moose are all over here and fully adapted to urban living) was seem eating fermented crab apples (much used as an ornamental) and becoming noticeably intoxicated. This, after entangling his rack in some of the lights strung, during the winter months, in the trees of the town square open space in the heart of the city. He was dubbed Buzzwinkle.

http://www.adn.com/2007/12/18/239052/buzzwinkle.html#id=239298&view=large_view

]]> By: Achrachno https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505887 Thu, 28 Jul 2011 06:49:48 +0000 http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/07/27/the-origin-of-wine/#comment-505887 “And, recently, we scored some Concord Grapes, which are native to North America (presumably thanks to some bird a long time ago) as opposed to most grapes, and which provide the roots for most (nearly all?) wine grape stock.”

At least a dozen grape species are native in North America, and they are widely distributed — there are several species in the eastern US, several more in Mexico, 2 in CA and there’s at least one more in AZ. Probably more in the middle part of the country, where I never go. N Am. may have more species than Europe. No need to invoke a bird to explain grape distribution. Vitis is widespread in the northern temperate zone. But it’s mostly just one species (V. vinifera) out of 60 worldwide that’s been selected for wine production, and that one is normally grafted onto North American roots, as you note. Concord and a couple of others are used directly to a limited degree or locally.

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