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	<title>
	Comments on: Today&#8217;s falsehood:  Correlation Implies/Does Not Imply Causality	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kevin, I discuss that exact question in detail in the post!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, I discuss that exact question in detail in the post!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Kevin ONeill		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504042</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin ONeill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 03:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504042</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg - I&#039;ve always known the phrase as, &#039;Correlation is not causation.&#039;  That&#039;s a fairly straightforward statement in my mind, basically saying, &#039;Beware of jumping to conclusions.&#039;

The useage you cite, &#039;Correlation does not imply causation.&#039; seems quite wrong. It seems obvious to me that correlation *does* imply causation - but it doesn&#039;t prove it.  

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tylervigen.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spurious correlations can be quite fun though :)&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg &#8211; I&#8217;ve always known the phrase as, &#8216;Correlation is not causation.&#8217;  That&#8217;s a fairly straightforward statement in my mind, basically saying, &#8216;Beware of jumping to conclusions.&#8217;</p>
<p>The useage you cite, &#8216;Correlation does not imply causation.&#8217; seems quite wrong. It seems obvious to me that correlation *does* imply causation &#8211; but it doesn&#8217;t prove it.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.tylervigen.com/" rel="nofollow">Spurious correlations can be quite fun though 🙂</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504041</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 19:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504041</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504040&quot;&gt;Brett&lt;/a&gt;.

Brett, that&#039;s a possibly correct post hoc explanation but usually does not apply. Most of the time the conversation is not about experiments at all. Correlation doe not suggest uncontrolled variables at all; in a very large number of cases, with high correlations, it would be wrong to assume that there are.  So-called &quot;causational methods&quot; don&#039;t so anything to identify cause.  Having a high correlation and an excellent understanding of physical causality for a system does not get better by using &quot;causational experimentation&quot; which is little more than normal experimentation where you&#039;ve made explicit statement about cause.  Finding a correlation between two variables by surprise provides only weak suggestion of an underlying cause. For this reason, the only real difference between an approach that is &quot;correlational&quot; and one that is &quot;causal&quot; is the level to which one argues against a proposed cause on the basis of a prior incredulity.  That is rarely helpful or impressive.

So no, that&#039;s not what it means, not where the term comes from, or how it is ever used except in a few rare instances, and the distinction between correlational and causal (the latter only used in some subfields but with analogs elsewhere) is not a novel experimental or statistical technique, really, but an approach to structuring analysis, which still requires understanding of (and proof of) mechanism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504040">Brett</a>.</p>
<p>Brett, that&#8217;s a possibly correct post hoc explanation but usually does not apply. Most of the time the conversation is not about experiments at all. Correlation doe not suggest uncontrolled variables at all; in a very large number of cases, with high correlations, it would be wrong to assume that there are.  So-called &#8220;causational methods&#8221; don&#8217;t so anything to identify cause.  Having a high correlation and an excellent understanding of physical causality for a system does not get better by using &#8220;causational experimentation&#8221; which is little more than normal experimentation where you&#8217;ve made explicit statement about cause.  Finding a correlation between two variables by surprise provides only weak suggestion of an underlying cause. For this reason, the only real difference between an approach that is &#8220;correlational&#8221; and one that is &#8220;causal&#8221; is the level to which one argues against a proposed cause on the basis of a prior incredulity.  That is rarely helpful or impressive.</p>
<p>So no, that&#8217;s not what it means, not where the term comes from, or how it is ever used except in a few rare instances, and the distinction between correlational and causal (the latter only used in some subfields but with analogs elsewhere) is not a novel experimental or statistical technique, really, but an approach to structuring analysis, which still requires understanding of (and proof of) mechanism.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brett		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504040</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brett]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504040</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Correlation does not imply causation means there are possibly other unknown/uncontrolled variables that may be causing the effect you are witnessing. Causational experiments have removed all other possible variables while correlational experiments have not which explains the weaker statement and inability to infer causation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correlation does not imply causation means there are possibly other unknown/uncontrolled variables that may be causing the effect you are witnessing. Causational experiments have removed all other possible variables while correlational experiments have not which explains the weaker statement and inability to infer causation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504039</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504039</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;...as it is clearly degrading to people that found correlation and want to continue along with the research until they prove causation.&quot;

But you can never &quot;prove&quot; casuation. You can increase confidence in your hypothesis, but you will never reach 100%, no matter how much research you do. 

You can&#039;t prove causation because it can never be observed. Even in the case of the apply and gravity mentioned in the blog, we can&#039;t be 100% sure that gravity caused the apple to fall. It&#039;s possible that one day an apple might shoot sidewards instead of falling; it&#039;s possible that that might already have happened, but no-one saw it. 

To prove casuation, you&#039;d have to be omniscient; and we&#039;re not.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;as it is clearly degrading to people that found correlation and want to continue along with the research until they prove causation.&#8221;</p>
<p>But you can never &#8220;prove&#8221; casuation. You can increase confidence in your hypothesis, but you will never reach 100%, no matter how much research you do. </p>
<p>You can&#8217;t prove causation because it can never be observed. Even in the case of the apply and gravity mentioned in the blog, we can&#8217;t be 100% sure that gravity caused the apple to fall. It&#8217;s possible that one day an apple might shoot sidewards instead of falling; it&#8217;s possible that that might already have happened, but no-one saw it. </p>
<p>To prove casuation, you&#8217;d have to be omniscient; and we&#8217;re not.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Neil Bates		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504038</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Bates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504038</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think Greg made the point well. To put in my own words: correlation does not *necessitate* causation, but it often does, especially when combined with theoretical reasons to suspect that. Also, remember that technically, in philosophical logic it is a &quot;fallacy&quot; if it is not a necessary logical conclusion, even if very often the case (such as, where there&#039;s smoke, there&#039;s fire - since smoke could come from another source, even bottled up previously etc.) The whole point is to &quot;keep in perspective&quot; and not get hung up on either certainty or be dismissive.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Greg made the point well. To put in my own words: correlation does not *necessitate* causation, but it often does, especially when combined with theoretical reasons to suspect that. Also, remember that technically, in philosophical logic it is a &#8220;fallacy&#8221; if it is not a necessary logical conclusion, even if very often the case (such as, where there&#8217;s smoke, there&#8217;s fire &#8211; since smoke could come from another source, even bottled up previously etc.) The whole point is to &#8220;keep in perspective&#8221; and not get hung up on either certainty or be dismissive.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Suzie		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504037</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suzie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504037</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The dismissive nature of the term &quot;correlation does not imply causation&quot; as used on the Internet is not only inane, it is not worth the effort it took to type it.

Pointing out smugly that &quot;correlation does not imply causation&quot; is incessant on science forums.  We see that comment, and cringe, as it is clearly degrading to people that found correlation and want to continue along with the research until they prove causation, or their theory disproves itself.

It is nauseating to read comments constructed by mental midgets disparaging epidemioligists, statistical analysts, herpetologists, and world renowned disease control scientists with an obscenely misused phrase like &quot;correlation does not imply causation&quot;.  Save your flimsy knowledge of statistics and science to impress the freshmen during frosh week.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dismissive nature of the term &#8220;correlation does not imply causation&#8221; as used on the Internet is not only inane, it is not worth the effort it took to type it.</p>
<p>Pointing out smugly that &#8220;correlation does not imply causation&#8221; is incessant on science forums.  We see that comment, and cringe, as it is clearly degrading to people that found correlation and want to continue along with the research until they prove causation, or their theory disproves itself.</p>
<p>It is nauseating to read comments constructed by mental midgets disparaging epidemioligists, statistical analysts, herpetologists, and world renowned disease control scientists with an obscenely misused phrase like &#8220;correlation does not imply causation&#8221;.  Save your flimsy knowledge of statistics and science to impress the freshmen during frosh week.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504036</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 14:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504036</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neil, that seems reasonable other than the possible confusion about causality of the causality. 

The original problem comes from the use of the word &quot;Imply&quot; in logic vs. &quot;Imply&quot; in vernacular parlance.  Like the word &quot;Theory&quot; in science vs. the vernacular they are almost opposites.  I imply things in my daily speech that I&#039;m trying to avoid saying, sometimes because I can&#039;t really say it. A implies B in logic because if you see A you should bet on B.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil, that seems reasonable other than the possible confusion about causality of the causality. </p>
<p>The original problem comes from the use of the word &#8220;Imply&#8221; in logic vs. &#8220;Imply&#8221; in vernacular parlance.  Like the word &#8220;Theory&#8221; in science vs. the vernacular they are almost opposites.  I imply things in my daily speech that I&#8217;m trying to avoid saying, sometimes because I can&#8217;t really say it. A implies B in logic because if you see A you should bet on B.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Neil Bates		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504035</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil Bates]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2014 02:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504035</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[How about: &quot;correlation does not necessitate causation&quot;? That doesn&#039;t imply cheap-shot evasion of that it so often does.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about: &#8220;correlation does not necessitate causation&#8221;? That doesn&#8217;t imply cheap-shot evasion of that it so often does.</p>
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		<title>
		By: OTMPut		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504034</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[OTMPut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2014 02:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/20/todays-falsehood-correlation-i/#comment-504034</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Gravity causes the apple to fall to the ground instead of sideways when it detaches from the tree &quot;

Is Gravity &quot;our&quot; explanation for apple falling or did it really &quot;cause&quot; the falling?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Gravity causes the apple to fall to the ground instead of sideways when it detaches from the tree &#8221;</p>
<p>Is Gravity &#8220;our&#8221; explanation for apple falling or did it really &#8220;cause&#8221; the falling?</p>
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