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	Comments on: Japan Nuclear Disaster Update 28: Mostly about contamination, of the sea, and around the world	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Reed Tiwl		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/#comment-503974</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reed Tiwl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/#comment-503974</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I like what you had to say Kraut, but you lost me on your last sentence there.  Could you explain how this correlates with religion, rather than just run of the mill greed and shortsightedness? ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like what you had to say Kraut, but you lost me on your last sentence there.  Could you explain how this correlates with religion, rather than just run of the mill greed and shortsightedness? </p>
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		<title>
		By: kraut		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/#comment-503973</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kraut]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/#comment-503973</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html

&quot;Fukushima has three nuclear reactors exposed and four fuel cores exposed,&quot; he said, &quot;You probably have the equivalent of 20 nuclear reactor cores because of the fuel cores, and they are all in desperate need of being cooled, and there is no means to cool them effectively.&quot;

TEPCO has been spraying water on several of the reactors and fuel cores, but this has led to even greater problems, such as radiation being emitted into the air in steam and evaporated sea water - as well as generating hundreds of thousands of tons of highly radioactive sea water that has to be disposed of.

&quot;The problem is how to keep it cool,&quot; says Gundersen. &quot;They are pouring in water and the question is what are they going to do with the waste that comes out of that system, because it is going to contain plutonium and uranium. Where do you put the water?&quot;

Even though the plant is now shut down, fission products such as uranium continue to generate heat, and therefore require cooling.

&quot;The fuels are now a molten blob at the bottom of the reactor,&quot; Gundersen added. &quot;TEPCO announced they had a melt through. A melt down is when the fuel collapses to the bottom of the reactor, and a melt through means it has melted through some layers. That blob is incredibly radioactive, and now you have water on top of it. The water picks up enormous amounts of radiation, so you add more water and you are generating hundreds of thousands of tons of highly radioactive water.&quot;

&quot;Units one through three have nuclear waste on the floor, the melted core, that has plutonium in it, and that has to be removed from the environment for hundreds of thousands of years,&quot; he said. &quot;Somehow, robotically, they will have to go in there and manage to put it in a container and store it for infinity, and that technology doesn&#039;t exist. Nobody knows how to pick up the molten core from the floor, there is no solution available now for picking that up from the floor.&quot;

WTF are we doing here? We implement processes that when they go wrong are simply uncontrollable. Are we as industrialized societies totally insane? 
What differentiates that willingness to sacrifice the health of our children actually from religious nutters to play with the lives of their children?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/06/201161664828302638.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Fukushima has three nuclear reactors exposed and four fuel cores exposed,&#8221; he said, &#8220;You probably have the equivalent of 20 nuclear reactor cores because of the fuel cores, and they are all in desperate need of being cooled, and there is no means to cool them effectively.&#8221;</p>
<p>TEPCO has been spraying water on several of the reactors and fuel cores, but this has led to even greater problems, such as radiation being emitted into the air in steam and evaporated sea water &#8211; as well as generating hundreds of thousands of tons of highly radioactive sea water that has to be disposed of.</p>
<p>&#8220;The problem is how to keep it cool,&#8221; says Gundersen. &#8220;They are pouring in water and the question is what are they going to do with the waste that comes out of that system, because it is going to contain plutonium and uranium. Where do you put the water?&#8221;</p>
<p>Even though the plant is now shut down, fission products such as uranium continue to generate heat, and therefore require cooling.</p>
<p>&#8220;The fuels are now a molten blob at the bottom of the reactor,&#8221; Gundersen added. &#8220;TEPCO announced they had a melt through. A melt down is when the fuel collapses to the bottom of the reactor, and a melt through means it has melted through some layers. That blob is incredibly radioactive, and now you have water on top of it. The water picks up enormous amounts of radiation, so you add more water and you are generating hundreds of thousands of tons of highly radioactive water.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Units one through three have nuclear waste on the floor, the melted core, that has plutonium in it, and that has to be removed from the environment for hundreds of thousands of years,&#8221; he said. &#8220;Somehow, robotically, they will have to go in there and manage to put it in a container and store it for infinity, and that technology doesn&#8217;t exist. Nobody knows how to pick up the molten core from the floor, there is no solution available now for picking that up from the floor.&#8221;</p>
<p>WTF are we doing here? We implement processes that when they go wrong are simply uncontrollable. Are we as industrialized societies totally insane?<br />
What differentiates that willingness to sacrifice the health of our children actually from religious nutters to play with the lives of their children?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lyle		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/#comment-503972</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 04:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/06/15/japan-nuclear-disaster-update-7/#comment-503972</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If you read the reports the most amazing thing is that folks at the plant did not know that a tsunami was incoming. Given that Japan has a system to warn before the S waves of an earthquake hit, this is amazing. Further because the emergency cooling system at #1 was taking the pressure down to fast it was turned off. In addition the manuals on how to use the manual release valves in the plant where in another building that was damaged by the quake.  Todays Japan Times says that the regulator (NISA) knew about the higher potential tsunami threat but could not force Tepco to do anything about it. 
In at least one point of view its sort of the same blindness that also affected Transocean before the Gulf Oil spill. Their proceedures did not include a massive blowout and how to deal with it, so when it happened they were not prepared. Tepco was not prepared for a site blackout even because they could not concieve of such a thing. Its the same as the black swan in business, some threats your eyes may see but the brain does not percieve. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read the reports the most amazing thing is that folks at the plant did not know that a tsunami was incoming. Given that Japan has a system to warn before the S waves of an earthquake hit, this is amazing. Further because the emergency cooling system at #1 was taking the pressure down to fast it was turned off. In addition the manuals on how to use the manual release valves in the plant where in another building that was damaged by the quake.  Todays Japan Times says that the regulator (NISA) knew about the higher potential tsunami threat but could not force Tepco to do anything about it.<br />
In at least one point of view its sort of the same blindness that also affected Transocean before the Gulf Oil spill. Their proceedures did not include a massive blowout and how to deal with it, so when it happened they were not prepared. Tepco was not prepared for a site blackout even because they could not concieve of such a thing. Its the same as the black swan in business, some threats your eyes may see but the brain does not percieve. </p>
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