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	Comments on: When is a bird a real turkey?	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:45:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502793</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502793</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I assume one country or state did it for one thing for some quirky reason, then everybody else had to do it for everything eventually. 

Still working on it.  Not every political or institutional entity has one of everything.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assume one country or state did it for one thing for some quirky reason, then everybody else had to do it for everything eventually. </p>
<p>Still working on it.  Not every political or institutional entity has one of everything.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: F		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502792</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[F]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502792</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Does anyone else find it odd that there are things such as national or state birds, flowers, rocks, &amp;c.? Where does that sort of thing originate?

Turkeys can startle the bejeezus out of you when they sneak up behind you while you are working on a ladder.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone else find it odd that there are things such as national or state birds, flowers, rocks, &#038;c.? Where does that sort of thing originate?</p>
<p>Turkeys can startle the bejeezus out of you when they sneak up behind you while you are working on a ladder.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mike		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502791</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 17:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502791</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, your post got me thinking about what might have been had the committee in charge of selecting our national bird had chosen differently. Obviously, the turkey would never fly (though I have seen turkeys in flight) but what about the Osprey? The seahawk is a noble, industrious raptor that cuts a fine form over waterways from coast to coast. If this bird was our national totem, we&#039;d still have regulated DDT. Best of all, because the Osprey appears on 6 continents, the rest of the world would constantly be confronted with symbols of America (not that they don&#039;t deal with that all the time anyway!) ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, your post got me thinking about what might have been had the committee in charge of selecting our national bird had chosen differently. Obviously, the turkey would never fly (though I have seen turkeys in flight) but what about the Osprey? The seahawk is a noble, industrious raptor that cuts a fine form over waterways from coast to coast. If this bird was our national totem, we&#8217;d still have regulated DDT. Best of all, because the Osprey appears on 6 continents, the rest of the world would constantly be confronted with symbols of America (not that they don&#8217;t deal with that all the time anyway!) </p>
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		<title>
		By: plumbing		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502790</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[plumbing]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2011 14:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502790</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The average lifespan of Bald Eagles in the wild is around 20 years, with the oldest living to be about 30. In captivity, they often live somewhat longer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The average lifespan of Bald Eagles in the wild is around 20 years, with the oldest living to be about 30. In captivity, they often live somewhat longer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Douglas Watts		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502789</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Douglas Watts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 18:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502789</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Where I live on the Kennebec River in central Maine, it is very rare to see bald eagles fishing, instead they wait for osprey to catch an alewife and then chase them to make them drop it. Their main prey is other birds, particularly seagulls and ducks. 

Domesticated turkeys are about as similar to wild turkeys as a poodle to a timber wolf. Wild turkey were hunted to extinction in New England by 1900 and were physically restored in the 1980s by live trapping birds from New York state and are now quite common, one of the few really good successful wildlife restoration efforts. They are very wary but sometimes are not; and contrary to many peoples&#039; belief are quite fond of roosting high in trees. They are decidedly not &#039;dumb&#039; -- hunting turkey requires a lot of skill and the ability to correctly call in the males at mating season, which is now. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where I live on the Kennebec River in central Maine, it is very rare to see bald eagles fishing, instead they wait for osprey to catch an alewife and then chase them to make them drop it. Their main prey is other birds, particularly seagulls and ducks. </p>
<p>Domesticated turkeys are about as similar to wild turkeys as a poodle to a timber wolf. Wild turkey were hunted to extinction in New England by 1900 and were physically restored in the 1980s by live trapping birds from New York state and are now quite common, one of the few really good successful wildlife restoration efforts. They are very wary but sometimes are not; and contrary to many peoples&#8217; belief are quite fond of roosting high in trees. They are decidedly not &#8216;dumb&#8217; &#8212; hunting turkey requires a lot of skill and the ability to correctly call in the males at mating season, which is now. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502788</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 15:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502788</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Calli,

Well, this post isn&#039;t exactly serious either.  Anyway, the original discussion by Corey gives the details on the Franklin letter.  I have no idea if Franklin, who was overseas for all of this, was serious or not.  Sounds to me like a possible case of skeptical skepticism.  

Bald eagles routinely steal fish from osprey.  Osprey are called fish eagles locally in some parts of the US. The African &quot;fish eagle&quot; is not merely referred to as a &quot;fish eagle&quot; but its official common name is &quot;fish eagle&quot; and it looks for all intense and purposes like an American Bald Eagle with a mullet.  And by mullet, I meant he hairdo, not the fish. The ern, also sometimes called a fish eagle but more often a &quot;sea eagle&quot; probably links the old world Fish Eagle to the Bald Eagle in a sort of ring-species arrangement (the ern is in Greenland, etc.)

Yes, as far as I know, turkeys don&#039;t really drown when it rains.  Who knows.  Maybe one did once.  
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calli,</p>
<p>Well, this post isn&#8217;t exactly serious either.  Anyway, the original discussion by Corey gives the details on the Franklin letter.  I have no idea if Franklin, who was overseas for all of this, was serious or not.  Sounds to me like a possible case of skeptical skepticism.  </p>
<p>Bald eagles routinely steal fish from osprey.  Osprey are called fish eagles locally in some parts of the US. The African &#8220;fish eagle&#8221; is not merely referred to as a &#8220;fish eagle&#8221; but its official common name is &#8220;fish eagle&#8221; and it looks for all intense and purposes like an American Bald Eagle with a mullet.  And by mullet, I meant he hairdo, not the fish. The ern, also sometimes called a fish eagle but more often a &#8220;sea eagle&#8221; probably links the old world Fish Eagle to the Bald Eagle in a sort of ring-species arrangement (the ern is in Greenland, etc.)</p>
<p>Yes, as far as I know, turkeys don&#8217;t really drown when it rains.  Who knows.  Maybe one did once.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Calli Arcale		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502787</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Calli Arcale]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2011 14:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502787</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A few urban legends ---

* Ben Franklin wasn&#039;t actually serious about the turkey as a national bird.  He was being sarcastic, a trait for which he was renowned but which we somehow forget whenever the subject of national birds comes up.  What&#039;s more, he didn&#039;t make the suggestion formally -- he only mentioned it in a letter to his daughter six years after the bald eagle was adopted as the national bird.  He wasn&#039;t happy with the bald eagle, obviously, but likely only suggested the turkey as a parody of the whole thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Turkey#Benjamin_Franklin_and_the_US_national_bird

* Turkeys don&#039;t drown in rainshowers because they look up and are too stupid to close their mouths.  Even domestic ones have decent self-preservation instincts against drowning.
http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/turkey.asp

* It&#039;s amusing to hear a bald eagle said to steal a fish from an osprey, which is subsequently described as a &quot;fish eagle&quot;, since although some people call the osprey a fish eagle, I hear that term more commonly applied to bald eagles and the rest of the Halieetus genus.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few urban legends &#8212;</p>
<p>* Ben Franklin wasn&#8217;t actually serious about the turkey as a national bird.  He was being sarcastic, a trait for which he was renowned but which we somehow forget whenever the subject of national birds comes up.  What&#8217;s more, he didn&#8217;t make the suggestion formally &#8212; he only mentioned it in a letter to his daughter six years after the bald eagle was adopted as the national bird.  He wasn&#8217;t happy with the bald eagle, obviously, but likely only suggested the turkey as a parody of the whole thing.<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Turkey#Benjamin_Franklin_and_the_US_national_bird" rel="nofollow ugc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Turkey#Benjamin_Franklin_and_the_US_national_bird</a></p>
<p>* Turkeys don&#8217;t drown in rainshowers because they look up and are too stupid to close their mouths.  Even domestic ones have decent self-preservation instincts against drowning.<br />
<a href="http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/turkey.asp" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/turkey.asp</a></p>
<p>* It&#8217;s amusing to hear a bald eagle said to steal a fish from an osprey, which is subsequently described as a &#8220;fish eagle&#8221;, since although some people call the osprey a fish eagle, I hear that term more commonly applied to bald eagles and the rest of the Halieetus genus.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502786</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 19:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502786</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, I don&#039;t know if Nat Geo has taken over selling ads for you all yet, but the banner at the top of your page is advertising QuantumJumping.com, which appears to be a technique for traveling to parallel dimensions to attract wealth and prosperity.

You&#039;ve got to admit that an eagle is a more inspiring symbol than an animal that will drown if it happens to look up in a drizzle.  And it&#039;s rather appropriate for a people that were using guerrilla warfare tactics against the British.  Plus, a bald eagle is a pretty badass looking bird.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, I don&#8217;t know if Nat Geo has taken over selling ads for you all yet, but the banner at the top of your page is advertising QuantumJumping.com, which appears to be a technique for traveling to parallel dimensions to attract wealth and prosperity.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got to admit that an eagle is a more inspiring symbol than an animal that will drown if it happens to look up in a drizzle.  And it&#8217;s rather appropriate for a people that were using guerrilla warfare tactics against the British.  Plus, a bald eagle is a pretty badass looking bird.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Chuck		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502785</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 19:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502785</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I saw just the opposite.  I saw an osprey take a fish from a bald eagle.  Not only did it take the fish but it chased the eagle for some time before it got the eagle to drop the fish.  

So, maybe the lesson is that birds carrying fish weighing 20% of their body weight can&#039;t fly that fast or fight back very well.  


Chuck]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw just the opposite.  I saw an osprey take a fish from a bald eagle.  Not only did it take the fish but it chased the eagle for some time before it got the eagle to drop the fish.  </p>
<p>So, maybe the lesson is that birds carrying fish weighing 20% of their body weight can&#8217;t fly that fast or fight back very well.  </p>
<p>Chuck</p>
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		<title>
		By: gruebait		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502784</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gruebait]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 22:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/05/07/when-is-a-bird-a-real-turkey/#comment-502784</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[gack. I can&#039;t imagine any fish eagle being good eating. Probably right up there with seagulls on the yuck list.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gack. I can&#8217;t imagine any fish eagle being good eating. Probably right up there with seagulls on the yuck list.</p>
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