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	Comments on: &#8220;We&#8217;ve grown up around firearms. We know the safety and we practice it.&#8221;	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Giliell		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502318</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Giliell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 20:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502318</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Greg
I plead guilty to chatting with Aunty Wiki: /wiki/Waffenmissbrauch#cite_note-8
Canadians also seem not to do that well.
Note that the statistic is only about intentional killings/murder, not accidents.
But I found it astounding that there are about 20-30 million firearms in Germany. About 10 million are legal and registered, most of the rest are once-legal-but-not-registered-when-the-law-was-changed-in-1972. There doesn&#039;t seem to be a big market for illegal weapons.
In my personal experience with gun owners here there are two types:
A)Sport shooters who love their weapons, own several, practice a lot and basically see their weapons as sports gear.
B)Gun nuts who need a penis extension (sorry to put it that way). They only participate in the required minimum of sports events to keep their licenses and fantasize about using them to shoot &quot;pigeons and bad guys&quot; where being an immigrant usually makes you qualify as &quot;bad guy&quot;

@Joe
It&#039;s an interesting point and made me think about a parallel in German society. If for a lot of Americans freedom and democracy would end if some more sensible gun laws were passed, a lot of Germany would think that the world was about to end if there was a speed limit on the Autobahn]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Greg<br />
I plead guilty to chatting with Aunty Wiki: /wiki/Waffenmissbrauch#cite_note-8<br />
Canadians also seem not to do that well.<br />
Note that the statistic is only about intentional killings/murder, not accidents.<br />
But I found it astounding that there are about 20-30 million firearms in Germany. About 10 million are legal and registered, most of the rest are once-legal-but-not-registered-when-the-law-was-changed-in-1972. There doesn&#8217;t seem to be a big market for illegal weapons.<br />
In my personal experience with gun owners here there are two types:<br />
A)Sport shooters who love their weapons, own several, practice a lot and basically see their weapons as sports gear.<br />
B)Gun nuts who need a penis extension (sorry to put it that way). They only participate in the required minimum of sports events to keep their licenses and fantasize about using them to shoot &#8220;pigeons and bad guys&#8221; where being an immigrant usually makes you qualify as &#8220;bad guy&#8221;</p>
<p>@Joe<br />
It&#8217;s an interesting point and made me think about a parallel in German society. If for a lot of Americans freedom and democracy would end if some more sensible gun laws were passed, a lot of Germany would think that the world was about to end if there was a speed limit on the Autobahn</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502317</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502317</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[well said, Joe]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well said, Joe</p>
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		<title>
		By: JoeKaistoe		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502316</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JoeKaistoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502316</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think there is a parallel between gun culture and car culture, and that parallel is simple: entitlement.

People think they are entitled to own a gun, and entitled to drive.  Getting a license is easier than graduating high school.  I personally don&#039;t know anyone who doesn&#039;t have their driver&#039;s license.  The longest I&#039;ve ever heard of licenses being revoked is 5 years.  That&#039;s because North American culture frames driving as a right, rather than a privledge, just like guns.

I think with any deadly weapon, you should be held accountable for it&#039;s care and use. What I can&#039;t understand is that people are allowed to do something that they have clearly shown they are so criminally incompetent at doing, that someone is permanently injured or dies.  Maybe the threat of permanently losing ones ability to drive, own guns, own vicious dogs, etc would force people to treat these things with respect, regardless of if the incompetent fool has &quot;suffered enough&quot;.  At the very least, it might stop them from doing it again.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a parallel between gun culture and car culture, and that parallel is simple: entitlement.</p>
<p>People think they are entitled to own a gun, and entitled to drive.  Getting a license is easier than graduating high school.  I personally don&#8217;t know anyone who doesn&#8217;t have their driver&#8217;s license.  The longest I&#8217;ve ever heard of licenses being revoked is 5 years.  That&#8217;s because North American culture frames driving as a right, rather than a privledge, just like guns.</p>
<p>I think with any deadly weapon, you should be held accountable for it&#8217;s care and use. What I can&#8217;t understand is that people are allowed to do something that they have clearly shown they are so criminally incompetent at doing, that someone is permanently injured or dies.  Maybe the threat of permanently losing ones ability to drive, own guns, own vicious dogs, etc would force people to treat these things with respect, regardless of if the incompetent fool has &#8220;suffered enough&#8221;.  At the very least, it might stop them from doing it again.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 17:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cathie, that blog is all cases of unintentional shootings!  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cathie, that blog is all cases of unintentional shootings!  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Cathie		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502314</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cathie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502314</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/

Ohh Shoot highlights unintentional shootings. Some might refer to these as accidental shootings, but accident is too often interpreted as unavoidable. The shootings on this blog did not have to happen. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://ohhshoot.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>Ohh Shoot highlights unintentional shootings. Some might refer to these as accidental shootings, but accident is too often interpreted as unavoidable. The shootings on this blog did not have to happen. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 14:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;As for the car/bike analogy: please somebody explain to me how the risks of gun-ownership relates to the benefits and then compare that to risk/benefit analysis of cars.&lt;/em&gt;

I&#039;m not sure it relates at all. 

Do you have sources for those numbers, they&#039;re very interesting. I&#039;ve seen similar things.

In canada, there are like 10 million people 50 million guns and no one ever shoots anyone.  

I think the attitude in the US is changing and can change. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>As for the car/bike analogy: please somebody explain to me how the risks of gun-ownership relates to the benefits and then compare that to risk/benefit analysis of cars.</em></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure it relates at all. </p>
<p>Do you have sources for those numbers, they&#8217;re very interesting. I&#8217;ve seen similar things.</p>
<p>In canada, there are like 10 million people 50 million guns and no one ever shoots anyone.  </p>
<p>I think the attitude in the US is changing and can change. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Giliell		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502312</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Giliell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 13:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502312</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, forgot something:
I think that the car-analogy works well in one area: how a change in culture reflects in more safety.
20 years ago, if you got caught drunk driving, you&#039;d get pity. Poor you, so unlucky, doesn&#039;t the police have any real criminals to catch? Even if you had an accident you&#039;d still get sympathy. 
Kids in the car and no adequate seat (even long after they&#039;d been introduced)? Oh, surely nothing will happen on that short trip. If things did happen, it was tragic.
Those things have changed, both have become totally unacceptable. You will not get sympathy, you&#039;ll get anger. I think that most of Europe has a kind of similar attitude towards guns, we don&#039;t consider them anything that&#039;s handled in public or in a living-room. Just like there are special items to transport kids in, there are special places to handle firearms.
And I feel that for the USA, to change that attitude will be very hard]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, forgot something:<br />
I think that the car-analogy works well in one area: how a change in culture reflects in more safety.<br />
20 years ago, if you got caught drunk driving, you&#8217;d get pity. Poor you, so unlucky, doesn&#8217;t the police have any real criminals to catch? Even if you had an accident you&#8217;d still get sympathy.<br />
Kids in the car and no adequate seat (even long after they&#8217;d been introduced)? Oh, surely nothing will happen on that short trip. If things did happen, it was tragic.<br />
Those things have changed, both have become totally unacceptable. You will not get sympathy, you&#8217;ll get anger. I think that most of Europe has a kind of similar attitude towards guns, we don&#8217;t consider them anything that&#8217;s handled in public or in a living-room. Just like there are special items to transport kids in, there are special places to handle firearms.<br />
And I feel that for the USA, to change that attitude will be very hard</p>
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		<title>
		By: Giliell		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502311</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Giliell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 12:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502311</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, please don&#039;t paint the situation in Germany too bright.
The father of the school-shooting kid got off lightly and in fact, the regulation that made it possible to charge him in the first place was only introduced some years ago after another school shooting. As a tiny sensible fraction of a totally &quot;apear to be doing something about things&quot; stupid law. Seriously, it made it legal to buy a sword on a medieval fair but not to carry it around afterwards...

But yes, I think there&#039;s more to guns and deaths as just &quot;ownership&quot;. 
Looking at some statistics I found some interesting numbers about the number of killings compared to the number of guns owned.
While in very poor countries with high crime rates few guns are used for a large number of killings, in the first world, the numbers vary a lot. While in Germany, with quite some regulation and a rather &quot;no guns in public&quot; culture, there are about 150.000 weapons for each gun-related murder, it&#039;s only 26.000 for the USA. 

As for the car/bike analogy: please somebody explain to me how the risks of gun-ownership relates to the benefits and then compare that to risk/benefit analysis of cars.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, please don&#8217;t paint the situation in Germany too bright.<br />
The father of the school-shooting kid got off lightly and in fact, the regulation that made it possible to charge him in the first place was only introduced some years ago after another school shooting. As a tiny sensible fraction of a totally &#8220;apear to be doing something about things&#8221; stupid law. Seriously, it made it legal to buy a sword on a medieval fair but not to carry it around afterwards&#8230;</p>
<p>But yes, I think there&#8217;s more to guns and deaths as just &#8220;ownership&#8221;.<br />
Looking at some statistics I found some interesting numbers about the number of killings compared to the number of guns owned.<br />
While in very poor countries with high crime rates few guns are used for a large number of killings, in the first world, the numbers vary a lot. While in Germany, with quite some regulation and a rather &#8220;no guns in public&#8221; culture, there are about 150.000 weapons for each gun-related murder, it&#8217;s only 26.000 for the USA. </p>
<p>As for the car/bike analogy: please somebody explain to me how the risks of gun-ownership relates to the benefits and then compare that to risk/benefit analysis of cars.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Warren		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502310</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Warren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 23:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502310</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[TJ @46: That&#039;s a bit of a false equivalence. We do not have a culture that glorifies drunk driving, but we most certainly do have a culture that glorifies hipshot, derring-do casualness with ludicrously overpowered weaponry. There is a bit of a nod-and-wink attitude toward drunk driving, but it&#039;s hardly the focus of 90-minute blockbuster action movies.

Are there too many cars on the road driven by idiots that have no self-control? Indubitably. Must that change? Without question. And think about this - it&#039;s actually harder for them to legally obtain and drive a car, than it is for most people to legally obtain a gun.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TJ @46: That&#8217;s a bit of a false equivalence. We do not have a culture that glorifies drunk driving, but we most certainly do have a culture that glorifies hipshot, derring-do casualness with ludicrously overpowered weaponry. There is a bit of a nod-and-wink attitude toward drunk driving, but it&#8217;s hardly the focus of 90-minute blockbuster action movies.</p>
<p>Are there too many cars on the road driven by idiots that have no self-control? Indubitably. Must that change? Without question. And think about this &#8211; it&#8217;s actually harder for them to legally obtain and drive a car, than it is for most people to legally obtain a gun.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TJ_Relic		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TJ_Relic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2011 17:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/weve-grown-up-around-firearms/#comment-502309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Why wouldn&#039;t you blame cars and the &quot;drunk&quot; culture when someone is killed in a vehicle accident? We DO have a culture of &quot;i only had a few&quot; and &quot;i drive better when i&#039;m drunk than most people do sober&quot; and &quot;i am only a few blocks from home&quot; and &quot;Joe will follow me and make sure I get home ok&quot; and that is something to stamp out.

Also, as a bicyclist, I do want to reduce the cars on the road and I do blame the car culture of the US for bicycle related deaths.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why wouldn&#8217;t you blame cars and the &#8220;drunk&#8221; culture when someone is killed in a vehicle accident? We DO have a culture of &#8220;i only had a few&#8221; and &#8220;i drive better when i&#8217;m drunk than most people do sober&#8221; and &#8220;i am only a few blocks from home&#8221; and &#8220;Joe will follow me and make sure I get home ok&#8221; and that is something to stamp out.</p>
<p>Also, as a bicyclist, I do want to reduce the cars on the road and I do blame the car culture of the US for bicycle related deaths.</p>
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