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	Comments on: iKnowwhatyoudidlastsummer	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:22:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502260</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502260</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[On the other hand, isn&#039;t the iPhone assembled in China?  Maybe this ap is for the Chinese government.  They want to track everyone as a condition of being able to sell iPhones in China.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, isn&#8217;t the iPhone assembled in China?  Maybe this ap is for the Chinese government.  They want to track everyone as a condition of being able to sell iPhones in China.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: johnm55		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502259</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[johnm55]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 20:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502259</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Crushing civil liberties? There&#039;s an app for that!&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I shall be sticking with my Palm Treo 650 for a while yet. As far as I know the only app on it that tracks anything is the one I use to keep track of my blood glucose. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Crushing civil liberties? There&#8217;s an app for that!</p></blockquote>
<p>I shall be sticking with my Palm Treo 650 for a while yet. As far as I know the only app on it that tracks anything is the one I use to keep track of my blood glucose. </p>
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		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502258</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 14:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502258</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lassi, if all you had was the data from one or a few iPhones, you are right.  But if you have the data from millions of iPhones, you can correlate them.  Throw in public data on addresses and you can identify just about everyone.  Once you identify someone, where they were during the period you have data on becomes an open book.  

I wonder how much $$$ Apple got and is getting from the US government to track everyone?  

Why they are doing it with unencrypted files is curious, it is almost as if they want to be caught.  If the files were encrypted, what they did would have remained obscure.  Was Apple compelled to do this by the Bush administration?  How much of the iPhone development cost was covered by the US government?  How much subsidy is Apple getting to expand market share?  

As I remember, Google got into a lot of trouble when they were mapping wifi locations in Europe because they recorded stuff.  Are people with iPhones who travel in Europe going to get into the same trouble as Google got into?  They are doing much the same thing, just on a smaller scale.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lassi, if all you had was the data from one or a few iPhones, you are right.  But if you have the data from millions of iPhones, you can correlate them.  Throw in public data on addresses and you can identify just about everyone.  Once you identify someone, where they were during the period you have data on becomes an open book.  </p>
<p>I wonder how much $$$ Apple got and is getting from the US government to track everyone?  </p>
<p>Why they are doing it with unencrypted files is curious, it is almost as if they want to be caught.  If the files were encrypted, what they did would have remained obscure.  Was Apple compelled to do this by the Bush administration?  How much of the iPhone development cost was covered by the US government?  How much subsidy is Apple getting to expand market share?  </p>
<p>As I remember, Google got into a lot of trouble when they were mapping wifi locations in Europe because they recorded stuff.  Are people with iPhones who travel in Europe going to get into the same trouble as Google got into?  They are doing much the same thing, just on a smaller scale.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Lassi HippelÃ¤inen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502257</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lassi HippelÃ¤inen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 10:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502257</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[daedaalus2u #4: The &quot;long run&quot; depends on what other sources of information are available for the party that has the MAC location records. Some example cases:

* Your phone operator knows your location. If they see a laptop MAC moving the same route as your phone, your laptop is associated with you in seconds.

* You use your laptop in a popular cafe. Another visitor doesn&#039;t know which customer you are, unless you meet several times.

* Your writings to blogs can contain information that locates your movements. May take months.

It all depends on your threat model. If someone tries to find out your MAC, they can send a tail who gets close to you in a known location. Can happen in less than a day, and doesn&#039;t require an iPhone. It can even be done automatically with a WLAN base station and a camera.

But luckily in most laptops you can change your MAC for fun and profit...




]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>daedaalus2u #4: The &#8220;long run&#8221; depends on what other sources of information are available for the party that has the MAC location records. Some example cases:</p>
<p>* Your phone operator knows your location. If they see a laptop MAC moving the same route as your phone, your laptop is associated with you in seconds.</p>
<p>* You use your laptop in a popular cafe. Another visitor doesn&#8217;t know which customer you are, unless you meet several times.</p>
<p>* Your writings to blogs can contain information that locates your movements. May take months.</p>
<p>It all depends on your threat model. If someone tries to find out your MAC, they can send a tail who gets close to you in a known location. Can happen in less than a day, and doesn&#8217;t require an iPhone. It can even be done automatically with a WLAN base station and a camera.</p>
<p>But luckily in most laptops you can change your MAC for fun and profit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: gwen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502256</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gwen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 04:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502256</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I love, Love, LOVE my iPhone. I have disabled the tracking on my phone, as much as it allows me to. I don&#039;t really go anywhere that needs to be reported to the feds, as long as I don&#039;t &#039;go missing&#039; as a victim of a crime. Having a years worth of my travel IS a bit disconcerting though...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love, Love, LOVE my iPhone. I have disabled the tracking on my phone, as much as it allows me to. I don&#8217;t really go anywhere that needs to be reported to the feds, as long as I don&#8217;t &#8216;go missing&#8217; as a victim of a crime. Having a years worth of my travel IS a bit disconcerting though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rick		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502255</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 22:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502255</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Android phone may not track you...Or it may.

The data is extremely interesting to Google.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Android phone may not track you&#8230;Or it may.</p>
<p>The data is extremely interesting to Google.</p>
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		<title>
		By: daedaalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502254</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedaalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 17:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502254</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Lassi #2, as I understand it, the &quot;long run&quot; you mention is a oouple of days.  It has already happened.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lassi #2, as I understand it, the &#8220;long run&#8221; you mention is a oouple of days.  It has already happened.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Ken		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502253</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502253</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nothing terribly new here, I&#039;m just glad it has made the mass media with a big splash. Cell phone companies have been tracking cell phones since the first cell phone. That&#039;s how cell technology works. The cell company MUST track the phone so it knows where to send incoming calls to.

The accuracy of tracking via only cell towers increased enough over the years that the government required cell companies to use updated equipment so calls could be triangulated better from multiple towers (for emergency response).

10 years ago the phone companies swore on a stack of their quarterly reports that they didn&#039;t store this information for any &quot;reasonable&quot; length of time due to the large amount of data and cost of storage. Today?

If you don&#039;t want to be tracked in today&#039;s world, it&#039;s not an easy thing to accomplish. You can start by turning off your cell phone, taking the battery out, wrapping the phone tightly in aluminum foil, then putting it in a mylar bag. Or, I suppose, you could just drop it in the river and walk away.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing terribly new here, I&#8217;m just glad it has made the mass media with a big splash. Cell phone companies have been tracking cell phones since the first cell phone. That&#8217;s how cell technology works. The cell company MUST track the phone so it knows where to send incoming calls to.</p>
<p>The accuracy of tracking via only cell towers increased enough over the years that the government required cell companies to use updated equipment so calls could be triangulated better from multiple towers (for emergency response).</p>
<p>10 years ago the phone companies swore on a stack of their quarterly reports that they didn&#8217;t store this information for any &#8220;reasonable&#8221; length of time due to the large amount of data and cost of storage. Today?</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want to be tracked in today&#8217;s world, it&#8217;s not an easy thing to accomplish. You can start by turning off your cell phone, taking the battery out, wrapping the phone tightly in aluminum foil, then putting it in a mylar bag. Or, I suppose, you could just drop it in the river and walk away.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lassi HippelÃ¤inen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502252</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lassi HippelÃ¤inen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502252</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@1: That is technically feasible, but there is one important difference. The iPhone knows the identity of its owner, but it doesn&#039;t know whom all those WLAN devices belong to, because there is no global database of MACs. It&#039;s only pseudonomous tracking.

But in the long run even pseudonomous tracking will collect enough information to identify the person.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1: That is technically feasible, but there is one important difference. The iPhone knows the identity of its owner, but it doesn&#8217;t know whom all those WLAN devices belong to, because there is no global database of MACs. It&#8217;s only pseudonomous tracking.</p>
<p>But in the long run even pseudonomous tracking will collect enough information to identify the person.</p>
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		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502251</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 15:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/23/iknowwhatyoudidlastsummer/#comment-502251</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If it collects wifi data, does that mean that every wifi device in range is located at every tracking point?  

That means that once there is overlapping coverage, every single wifi device within that overlapping coverage is located.  

With that data base you could track anyone and everyone that has any wifi device, even people without an iPhone or iPad.  

It isn&#039;t just spying on you, it is spying on everyone around you.  



]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it collects wifi data, does that mean that every wifi device in range is located at every tracking point?  </p>
<p>That means that once there is overlapping coverage, every single wifi device within that overlapping coverage is located.  </p>
<p>With that data base you could track anyone and everyone that has any wifi device, even people without an iPhone or iPad.  </p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t just spying on you, it is spying on everyone around you.  </p>
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