Comments on: Fear, Loathing and Misogyny in the Upper Midwest

By: itzac

itzac — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 18:10:22 +0000

DGard, I think you’ve got the moral of your story wrong. Let me try and explain with a story of my own.

I run a poker game with some friends from university. It’s a cash games, dealer’s choice. On a given hand we could be playing any of a few dozen games. We even make some up on the spot. And there is the potential for a lot of money to move around very quickly. Any time a new player joins our game, we make sure to explain the rules to every game, we coach as much as is appropriate, but at the end of the day, it’s up to each player to decide if they can afford to lose a bet. Some people lose their shirts when they start out, but they almost always come back, and they get better.

You gave your boys the right advice. That the girls and their coaches hadn’t adequately considered the possibility of losing is no one’s fault but their’s. If we’re talking about 11-12yr old girls vs. 9-10yr old boys, then the physical difference between the two groups is probably far less important than differences in coaching.

Taking it back to the original discussion. Herkelman and Black knew what they were getting into. It’s not up to Northrup to second guess their choices.

By: Dunc

Dunc — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 13:41:56 +0000

Presumably because the fax is so obviously wrong and stupid that there's nothing to be said about it

True. I mean, who the hell sends a fax in this day and age?

By: Jim Thomerson

Jim Thomerson — Tue, 22 Feb 2011 03:38:41 +0000

My three children all played in a local soccer league. My daughter’s team often practiced against similar age boys teams. Sometimes they would win, sometimes they would lose.

Watching games of boys vs girls at various ages, my impression was that boys had greater athletic ability and looked smooth in play. Girls were less athletic and less smooth in execution, but played with more focus and intensity than the boys did.

By: DGard

DGard — Sun, 20 Feb 2011 19:34:25 +0000

This reminds me of an incident that happened a few years ago when I was coaching youth basketball. The teams were not coed, but someone (one of the parents, actually) got the bright idea of having a game between a girls team and a boys team. The girls were the champions of their age group, were undefeated, and had won every one of their games by a comfortable margin. My (boys) team was reasonably good, but not outstanding. I should also note that the girls team was from the next higher age bracket (11-12 year olds) than my team, apparently because this seemed “fairer” to the parents who organized all of this. My boys were reluctant to play, largely due to the whole ‘no-win’ aspect of the thing. I wasn’t really too wild about it, either. I honestly thought my boys would lose — these were nice, well-raised kids from a nice, liberal community; who’s parent had taught them to be respectful to young women, and frankly I thought they would not be able to muster up that competitive instinct that it often takes to win at sports. The only advice I could give them was to play like they would any other game. Long story short, my team beat the girls team, badly. At the end the game, the girls were in tears, my boys felt like heels for having beaten a bunch of girls, the parents were all angry (especially the ones who organized the game) and I have never coached youth sports since, and have no plans to ever again. I don’t really know if there’s a moral to this story or not, but I think that sometimes it’s better not to recognize that there are real difference between the sexes, and even the most well-meaning attempts to bridge those gaps can sometimes produce some really bad results.

By: SimonG

SimonG — Sun, 20 Feb 2011 18:43:08 +0000

#13

Love how everyone goes for the sports item and skips over the threatening fax.

Presumably because the fax is so obviously wrong and stupid that there’s nothing to be said about it, whereas the wrestling at least has some scope for discussion.

By: Jim Thomerson

Jim Thomerson — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 21:33:01 +0000

In Jr. High, my daughter beat all the boys on the wresting team and was invited to join. My wife said no, and I did not hear about it until considerably later, so was able to avoid thinking about it.

By: D. C. Sessions

D. C. Sessions — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:42:51 +0000

I can sympathize with the boy — there are too many holds that he’d be conflicted over. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

And yes, it’s wrestling. Nothing personal, not his problem, different context, that crotch grip is just part of the sport, etc. But I keep recalling that you learn the rules first and very, very carefully make exceptions — and at his age, I’m reluctant to make exceptions. Hell, I’m almost 60 and it’s still a challenge to avoid any show of discomfort when I have to examine a woman (or worse, girl) in swimsuit country.

Seems to me there are a lot of women who would second the “when in doubt, no touchee; when in doubt, no violence” rule considering their problems with men who make exceptions for themselves.

So I sympathize and don’t want to pretend that it’s all black and white. But that excuse was really lame.

By: sidhe3141

sidhe3141 — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 10:05:01 +0000

Love how everyone goes for the sports item and skips over the threatening fax.

By: Drivebyposter

Drivebyposter — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:40:14 +0000

If I was his coach, I’d be reluctant to put him on the wrestling team or however it works there in the future. You can’t have someone just give up without trying.
No team would put up with a baseball player refusing to bat because the pitcher is left handed.

By: monson

monson — Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:04:08 +0000

Sondrah

All I said was if he refuses to play by the rules he shouldn’t play. Twist it all you want.