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	Comments on: Falsehoods:  Human Universals	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498826</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 00:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498826</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I would start with &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0877228418/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=wwwgregladenc-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399373&amp;creativeASIN=0877228418&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Human Universals&lt;/a&gt;&lt;img src=&quot;http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=wwwgregladenc-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=1&amp;a=0877228418&amp;camp=217145&amp;creative=399373&quot; width=&quot;1&quot; height=&quot;1&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; style=&quot;border:none !important; margin:0px !important;&quot; /&gt; by Donald Brown.  There is a chapter on it there. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would start with <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0877228418/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=wwwgregladenc-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=217145&#038;creative=399373&#038;creativeASIN=0877228418" rel="nofollow">Human Universals</a><img src="https://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=wwwgregladenc-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=1&#038;a=0877228418&#038;camp=217145&#038;creative=399373" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /> by Donald Brown.  There is a chapter on it there. </p>
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		<title>
		By: JL		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498825</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 23:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498825</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Could you tell me where you found the information about cultural differences in color names? I am currently working on a project that requires heavy research into color cognition, and I found this bit particularly interesting and would love to pursue it further. Appreciate it!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you tell me where you found the information about cultural differences in color names? I am currently working on a project that requires heavy research into color cognition, and I found this bit particularly interesting and would love to pursue it further. Appreciate it!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498824</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 17:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498824</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tuomas: Well said. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tuomas: Well said. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Tuomas PylkkÃ¶		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tuomas PylkkÃ¶]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 17:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t believe that there has ever been a single person that has opinioned against the existence of Human Universals. It&#039;s just that in some situations it is not meaningful to discuss them, because they are tautologies from that certain perspective of analysis. In other words, some people begin studying the amputees to begin with, and naturally they will not do much with a study that proves that most people are bipedal. A person that studies the development of certain concepts in Roman law in a certain period of the civilization will not do much with, say, de Waal&#039;s new study that claims to prove in a novel way that there is common ground in human and primate morality. Because it cannot explain why some concept of law was invented in a certain court during a certain period, for example.

Most of the time I see debate on Universals it has to do with this. Some people are very very interested in generalities of human life, while others are interested in the particularities of human life and culture.

Of course, yet another option, which is mostly only discussed in philosphy, is how and where the idea of universality was invented and to what extent has it been misued, or understood in other eras and so on.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe that there has ever been a single person that has opinioned against the existence of Human Universals. It&#8217;s just that in some situations it is not meaningful to discuss them, because they are tautologies from that certain perspective of analysis. In other words, some people begin studying the amputees to begin with, and naturally they will not do much with a study that proves that most people are bipedal. A person that studies the development of certain concepts in Roman law in a certain period of the civilization will not do much with, say, de Waal&#8217;s new study that claims to prove in a novel way that there is common ground in human and primate morality. Because it cannot explain why some concept of law was invented in a certain court during a certain period, for example.</p>
<p>Most of the time I see debate on Universals it has to do with this. Some people are very very interested in generalities of human life, while others are interested in the particularities of human life and culture.</p>
<p>Of course, yet another option, which is mostly only discussed in philosphy, is how and where the idea of universality was invented and to what extent has it been misued, or understood in other eras and so on.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 18:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Damn.  This is the third time I&#039;ve flixed that.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn.  This is the third time I&#8217;ve flixed that.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Fleeding		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fleeding]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2011 17:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think you meant to write &quot;feeding&quot; when you wrote &quot;fleeding&quot;.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you meant to write &#8220;feeding&#8221; when you wrote &#8220;fleeding&#8221;.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Regarding the comment:
&quot;It is late for me here, so I am not sure I got all that on the first read, but I just wanted to say that this struck me as a very thorough and cogent introduction to a concept I had not been much exposed to. Thank you.&quot;

I echo that.
A lovely peice of science writing (and commenting too). I especially applaud including cleverly funny bits like &#039;the four F&#039;s&#039; of (what is this again, &#039;Anthropology&#039;?).
 ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the comment:<br />
&#8220;It is late for me here, so I am not sure I got all that on the first read, but I just wanted to say that this struck me as a very thorough and cogent introduction to a concept I had not been much exposed to. Thank you.&#8221;</p>
<p>I echo that.<br />
A lovely peice of science writing (and commenting too). I especially applaud including cleverly funny bits like &#8216;the four F&#8217;s&#8217; of (what is this again, &#8216;Anthropology&#8217;?).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498819</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498819</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Take note: http://tinyurl.com/4payl7c  regarding next Friday&#039;s radio show on this topic. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take note: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/4payl7c" rel="nofollow ugc">http://tinyurl.com/4payl7c</a>  regarding next Friday&#8217;s radio show on this topic. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498818</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 14:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498818</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[kepisto, needing or not needing caveats in the langauge is not related to the fact that xx, xy, xxy, xxxy, xyy, xxyy, CAH, AIS, 5-alpha reductase deficiency and a dozen other things that all occur in n/thousands of people produce results that defy the binary label. And those are the easy ones.

With respect to genender, people identify themselves, they identify their ideal partner, etc. and each of these identifications can relate to something that happens developmentally at, perhaps, a half dozen points or stages, some purely chemical, some social, most environment-gene interactive. This would result in only XY people in some n^m possible gender-oriented sorts of individuals, where n is probably two and M is probably between 4 and 8, and some of those options are what we would call physical (i.e measurable with a caliper or qualitatively describable via anatomy) externally but most are physical internally and observable only by slicing up brains. 

Male/Female is a real and powerful binary, like sky vs. sea.  But have you ever been on the surface of the sea during a hurricane, or have you ever really considered what fog is.  And sky/sea is probably a more consistent binary than male/female. 

Regarding third sex, if you review the argument I just made, there are 20 &quot;sexes&quot; (genders). Or 60. Or nine.  Some number larger than three. What astonishes me is how culture manages to cram everybody into two or three &quot;genders&quot; much of the time. 

I avoid the word &quot;disorder.&quot;  

Non XY with &quot;normative&quot; development is not uncommon.  And we haven&#039;t even mentioned chimerism!  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kepisto, needing or not needing caveats in the langauge is not related to the fact that xx, xy, xxy, xxxy, xyy, xxyy, CAH, AIS, 5-alpha reductase deficiency and a dozen other things that all occur in n/thousands of people produce results that defy the binary label. And those are the easy ones.</p>
<p>With respect to genender, people identify themselves, they identify their ideal partner, etc. and each of these identifications can relate to something that happens developmentally at, perhaps, a half dozen points or stages, some purely chemical, some social, most environment-gene interactive. This would result in only XY people in some n^m possible gender-oriented sorts of individuals, where n is probably two and M is probably between 4 and 8, and some of those options are what we would call physical (i.e measurable with a caliper or qualitatively describable via anatomy) externally but most are physical internally and observable only by slicing up brains. </p>
<p>Male/Female is a real and powerful binary, like sky vs. sea.  But have you ever been on the surface of the sea during a hurricane, or have you ever really considered what fog is.  And sky/sea is probably a more consistent binary than male/female. </p>
<p>Regarding third sex, if you review the argument I just made, there are 20 &#8220;sexes&#8221; (genders). Or 60. Or nine.  Some number larger than three. What astonishes me is how culture manages to cram everybody into two or three &#8220;genders&#8221; much of the time. </p>
<p>I avoid the word &#8220;disorder.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Non XY with &#8220;normative&#8221; development is not uncommon.  And we haven&#8217;t even mentioned chimerism!  </p>
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		<title>
		By: kepsito		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498817</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kepsito]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 06:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/26/falsehoods-human-universals/#comment-498817</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mmmm. In what way is sex non-binary? 

In the biological sense ... sure there are things like Klinefelter&#039;s and Turner&#039;s syndrome; but I&#039;d disagree they actually represent anything like &#039;extra&#039; sexes; they mostly cause infertility with a few other health defects, but in the common use of language we need have no caveats in describing Turner&#039;s syndrome women as women and Klinefelter&#039;s men as men.

A better argument for a non-binary idea of biological sex is perhaps provided by certain hormonal disorders, but I think there&#039;s extreme problems in deriving generals or rules from such extreme outliers (which are often presented as more distinct than they really are by people with an ideological axe to grind). I think they fall into my &quot;we can still say &#039;humans are bipedal&#039;&quot; argument above.

As for culturally: I&#039;d agree that third-sex cultural categories exist; I&#039;d disagree that they&#039;re anywhere near as common as often portrayed these days [a lot of ritual concepts seem to have been lumped by some into implying an *identity* aspect which they did not seem originally to possess], and they&#039;re quite possibly rare enough to fall under the same principle of &#039;essentially outliers, too rare to have much meaning&#039;. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm. In what way is sex non-binary? </p>
<p>In the biological sense &#8230; sure there are things like Klinefelter&#8217;s and Turner&#8217;s syndrome; but I&#8217;d disagree they actually represent anything like &#8216;extra&#8217; sexes; they mostly cause infertility with a few other health defects, but in the common use of language we need have no caveats in describing Turner&#8217;s syndrome women as women and Klinefelter&#8217;s men as men.</p>
<p>A better argument for a non-binary idea of biological sex is perhaps provided by certain hormonal disorders, but I think there&#8217;s extreme problems in deriving generals or rules from such extreme outliers (which are often presented as more distinct than they really are by people with an ideological axe to grind). I think they fall into my &#8220;we can still say &#8216;humans are bipedal'&#8221; argument above.</p>
<p>As for culturally: I&#8217;d agree that third-sex cultural categories exist; I&#8217;d disagree that they&#8217;re anywhere near as common as often portrayed these days [a lot of ritual concepts seem to have been lumped by some into implying an *identity* aspect which they did not seem originally to possess], and they&#8217;re quite possibly rare enough to fall under the same principle of &#8216;essentially outliers, too rare to have much meaning&#8217;. </p>
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