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	Comments on: Tears as a human female adaptation to limit rape	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/</link>
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		<title>
		By: HenryS		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498323</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HenryS]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2014 23:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498323</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s in a weak, semi-feminized patriarchal society that the exploitation of females by males, which is necessary for the continuation of kind and tribe, continues while the protection that a male &quot;owner&quot; of his females is largely eliminated. The worst feature of patriarchialism is continured while its best feature is disabled.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s in a weak, semi-feminized patriarchal society that the exploitation of females by males, which is necessary for the continuation of kind and tribe, continues while the protection that a male &#8220;owner&#8221; of his females is largely eliminated. The worst feature of patriarchialism is continured while its best feature is disabled.</p>
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		<title>
		By: StevoR		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498322</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[StevoR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498322</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@5.gwen &#124; January 21, 2011 11:36 PM :

&lt;blockquote&gt;What is to prevent the victim from dropping off the infant, once born, into the nearest field to die?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Religion?

In some cases the rapist himself and /or his gang / tribe? 

A patriachial cultural context where women&#039;s bodies are seen as male property and they not allowed to control what happens to them? :-(]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@5.gwen | January 21, 2011 11:36 PM :</p>
<blockquote><p>What is to prevent the victim from dropping off the infant, once born, into the nearest field to die?</p></blockquote>
<p>Religion?</p>
<p>In some cases the rapist himself and /or his gang / tribe? </p>
<p>A patriachial cultural context where women&#8217;s bodies are seen as male property and they not allowed to control what happens to them? 🙁</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bekkah		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498321</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bekkah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jun 2011 03:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498321</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a woman who has been raped (more than once), I would like to add that some male rapists are definitively not &quot;turned off&quot; by tears. Tears may arise from both the physical pain and emotional terror. Some rapists progressively escalate the intensity of physical pain they inflict specifically to produce the desired response (including tears, screaming, pleading) in their victims.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a woman who has been raped (more than once), I would like to add that some male rapists are definitively not &#8220;turned off&#8221; by tears. Tears may arise from both the physical pain and emotional terror. Some rapists progressively escalate the intensity of physical pain they inflict specifically to produce the desired response (including tears, screaming, pleading) in their victims.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498320</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498320</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, I like T Pratchett&#039;s definition of &quot;primitive culture&quot; that Rincewind has found by actual experience.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, I like T Pratchett&#8217;s definition of &#8220;primitive culture&#8221; that Rincewind has found by actual experience.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498319</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498319</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Rape also often has a component of projection.

Lots of rapists are *seriously* religious in a religion that deems sex immoral. Therefore, since this person is getting a buzz, it must be the victim&#039;s fault, ergo THEIR (the victim&#039;s) lust.

It also gets easier to justify in a religion that has Original Sin: if all humans are basically wicked, then it&#039;s not your fault, you just backslided for a bit and maybe being EXTRA virtuous for a week will even it out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rape also often has a component of projection.</p>
<p>Lots of rapists are *seriously* religious in a religion that deems sex immoral. Therefore, since this person is getting a buzz, it must be the victim&#8217;s fault, ergo THEIR (the victim&#8217;s) lust.</p>
<p>It also gets easier to justify in a religion that has Original Sin: if all humans are basically wicked, then it&#8217;s not your fault, you just backslided for a bit and maybe being EXTRA virtuous for a week will even it out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498318</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498318</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;In a more primitive situation, namely in a tribal society, occasions of rape may have been more communal situation, as in to the victor go the spoils in the case of tribal warfare.&lt;/em&gt;

Uh oh.

[anthropological rant]

Ah... when I read a sentence like this, many bells go off, such as the use of the word &quot;primitive&quot; (I promise you it has a rich meaning that simply does not apply in this case at all no matter what you happen to think it means) and the term &quot;tribal society&quot; .. that&#039;s a little like saying &quot;Well, we&#039;ve got your raccoons, and we&#039;ve got non-raccoon members of the order of Carnivores, and the raccoons are one thing and the carnivores are this other thing&quot; ... Then there&#039;s the fact that non-Western societies, being very very diverse, have very very different patterns of rape, and I&#039;m sure you will find many such societies where rape is rare or virtually does not happen.  

There are three very famous social settings where rape of one form or another occurs more often than many other societies.  1) Lots of variation in economic disparity, women&#039;s power, etc. in the context where individuals (men or women) are very often alone.  That would be rural and urban areas in the US; 2) Western armies in combat settings; and 3) that whole period of time from the &quot;rise of civ&quot; through the &quot;dark ages&quot; and the middle ages and so on, including the prior lat Bronze Age and Iron Age, in Europe.  I mean, really, Vikings were more typical than not.

I&#039;ve listed these three in ascending order of liklihood that a woman will at some time in her life be raped, and we can probably reverse 2 and 3 locally for prolonged occupation or if we want to ask a slightly different question:  Chance of cause of death being linked to rape.  

None of that is about &quot;tribal&quot; or &quot;primitive&quot; ... I lived for years in &quot;tribal primitive&quot; societies and the only rape that happened was by westernized people, such as regular army soldiers.  There is virtually no rape among Pygmies and almot no rape among the horticultural villagers I lived with in two totally different regions of Central Africa.  

[/ anthropological rant]


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>In a more primitive situation, namely in a tribal society, occasions of rape may have been more communal situation, as in to the victor go the spoils in the case of tribal warfare.</em></p>
<p>Uh oh.</p>
<p>[anthropological rant]</p>
<p>Ah&#8230; when I read a sentence like this, many bells go off, such as the use of the word &#8220;primitive&#8221; (I promise you it has a rich meaning that simply does not apply in this case at all no matter what you happen to think it means) and the term &#8220;tribal society&#8221; .. that&#8217;s a little like saying &#8220;Well, we&#8217;ve got your raccoons, and we&#8217;ve got non-raccoon members of the order of Carnivores, and the raccoons are one thing and the carnivores are this other thing&#8221; &#8230; Then there&#8217;s the fact that non-Western societies, being very very diverse, have very very different patterns of rape, and I&#8217;m sure you will find many such societies where rape is rare or virtually does not happen.  </p>
<p>There are three very famous social settings where rape of one form or another occurs more often than many other societies.  1) Lots of variation in economic disparity, women&#8217;s power, etc. in the context where individuals (men or women) are very often alone.  That would be rural and urban areas in the US; 2) Western armies in combat settings; and 3) that whole period of time from the &#8220;rise of civ&#8221; through the &#8220;dark ages&#8221; and the middle ages and so on, including the prior lat Bronze Age and Iron Age, in Europe.  I mean, really, Vikings were more typical than not.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve listed these three in ascending order of liklihood that a woman will at some time in her life be raped, and we can probably reverse 2 and 3 locally for prolonged occupation or if we want to ask a slightly different question:  Chance of cause of death being linked to rape.  </p>
<p>None of that is about &#8220;tribal&#8221; or &#8220;primitive&#8221; &#8230; I lived for years in &#8220;tribal primitive&#8221; societies and the only rape that happened was by westernized people, such as regular army soldiers.  There is virtually no rape among Pygmies and almot no rape among the horticultural villagers I lived with in two totally different regions of Central Africa.  </p>
<p>[/ anthropological rant]</p>
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		<title>
		By: natural cynic		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498317</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[natural cynic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 20:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498317</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;The study done on the effect of female tears on the arousal of males was done with fairly nomral male humans I imagine.
A rapist could hardly be categorized as a &#039;fairly normal male&#039;, and would be unlikely to be influenced by the faint chemicals in the tears of the victim...&lt;/blockquote&gt;  The key word is normal.  Rape, in our society, is normally a solitary situation committed by someone who is decidedly not normal.  In a more primitive situation, namely in a tribal society, occasions of rape may have been more communal situation, as in to the victor go the spoils in the case of tribal warfare.  In that situation, tears may have had some effect on some the winners. Did all of the Serb soldiers commit rape in Bosnia and Kosovo?
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The study done on the effect of female tears on the arousal of males was done with fairly nomral male humans I imagine.<br />
A rapist could hardly be categorized as a &#8216;fairly normal male&#8217;, and would be unlikely to be influenced by the faint chemicals in the tears of the victim&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>  The key word is normal.  Rape, in our society, is normally a solitary situation committed by someone who is decidedly not normal.  In a more primitive situation, namely in a tribal society, occasions of rape may have been more communal situation, as in to the victor go the spoils in the case of tribal warfare.  In that situation, tears may have had some effect on some the winners. Did all of the Serb soldiers commit rape in Bosnia and Kosovo?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Phinneus		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498316</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phinneus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 17:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498316</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The study done on the effect of female tears on the arousal of males was done with fairly nomral male humans I imagine.
A rapist could hardly be categorized as a &#039;fairly normal male&#039;, and would be unlikely to be influenced by the faint chemicals in the tears of the victim. A nice small bullet would work so much better.
Brent above is accurate when he states that rape is not so much about sex as humiliation and debasement and power, and a sexual &#039;turn off&#039;, would matter little.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The study done on the effect of female tears on the arousal of males was done with fairly nomral male humans I imagine.<br />
A rapist could hardly be categorized as a &#8216;fairly normal male&#8217;, and would be unlikely to be influenced by the faint chemicals in the tears of the victim. A nice small bullet would work so much better.<br />
Brent above is accurate when he states that rape is not so much about sex as humiliation and debasement and power, and a sexual &#8216;turn off&#8217;, would matter little.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Samantha Vimes		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Samantha Vimes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 11:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It would really make more sense if (assuming there was a purpose rather than an accidental effect) one looked into whether men knowing when NOT to make annoying passes at their upset beloveds improves the emotional bond between them, making it more likely they will raise children together rather than her kicking him out of the shelter for being clueless. 
But it seems just as likely that a sorrow-stress hormone, when smelled, would induce a dampening effect on mood, just because it would be a little bit like having some of that chemical in your own bloodstream. No purpose, just a simple biochemical recognition. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would really make more sense if (assuming there was a purpose rather than an accidental effect) one looked into whether men knowing when NOT to make annoying passes at their upset beloveds improves the emotional bond between them, making it more likely they will raise children together rather than her kicking him out of the shelter for being clueless.<br />
But it seems just as likely that a sorrow-stress hormone, when smelled, would induce a dampening effect on mood, just because it would be a little bit like having some of that chemical in your own bloodstream. No purpose, just a simple biochemical recognition. </p>
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		<title>
		By: gwen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498314</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gwen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Jan 2011 05:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/01/21/tears-as-a-human-female-adapta/#comment-498314</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What is to prevent the victim from dropping off the infant, once born, into the nearest field to die? I can&#039;t imagine the product of such violence triggering ANY feelings of maternal love in ME.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is to prevent the victim from dropping off the infant, once born, into the nearest field to die? I can&#8217;t imagine the product of such violence triggering ANY feelings of maternal love in ME.</p>
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