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	Comments on: An excellent example of either crappy science reporting or crappy science &#8230;	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:21:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526608</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526608</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tom: My thoughts exactly.  This is totally cut out for S.A., a classic example of it.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom: My thoughts exactly.  This is totally cut out for S.A., a classic example of it.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Tomato Addict		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526607</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tomato Addict]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 01:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526607</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[They are - IMO - using the wrong statistical test. With ~10 years of data, some of those papers have had much more time for errors to be found and reported. Instead they should be looking at time-to-retraction and using the log-rank test (survival analysis). This would be a more powerful analysis and would give less biased results.

Just off the top of my head, studies with more authors also have more people who might notice errors in a study and do something about it. It could be that that studies with more authors are at greater risk of having errors detected. 

Hypotheses: 
(1)Kaplan-Meier plots of the retraction rate would show more early retractions with &quot;many&quot; authors compared to &quot;few&quot; authors. (non-proportional hazards) 
(2) The retraction rate for both groups (few and many authors) will tend to converge to the same proportion over time. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are &#8211; IMO &#8211; using the wrong statistical test. With ~10 years of data, some of those papers have had much more time for errors to be found and reported. Instead they should be looking at time-to-retraction and using the log-rank test (survival analysis). This would be a more powerful analysis and would give less biased results.</p>
<p>Just off the top of my head, studies with more authors also have more people who might notice errors in a study and do something about it. It could be that that studies with more authors are at greater risk of having errors detected. </p>
<p>Hypotheses:<br />
(1)Kaplan-Meier plots of the retraction rate would show more early retractions with &#8220;many&#8221; authors compared to &#8220;few&#8221; authors. (non-proportional hazards)<br />
(2) The retraction rate for both groups (few and many authors) will tend to converge to the same proportion over time. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Mihai Martoiu Ticu		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526606</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mihai Martoiu Ticu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 22:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526606</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The article was an experiment on how fast one gets caught for fraud.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article was an experiment on how fast one gets caught for fraud.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Deen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526605</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 16:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526605</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wouldn&#039;t this be evidence that more fraud was &lt;em&gt;discovered&lt;/em&gt; in the US, not that more fraud was &lt;em&gt;committed&lt;/em&gt;? By that reasoning, wouldn&#039;t you expect &lt;em&gt;more&lt;/em&gt; retractions due to fraud from countries with a stronger research infrastructure, not fewer? 

Despite that, if I have to choose, I&#039;m putting my vote in the &quot;bad science reporting&quot; category. The number of fraud cases in the US compared to the rest of the world is only a small part of the paper, and not even the most interesting part. And yet it gets the headline.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t this be evidence that more fraud was <em>discovered</em> in the US, not that more fraud was <em>committed</em>? By that reasoning, wouldn&#8217;t you expect <em>more</em> retractions due to fraud from countries with a stronger research infrastructure, not fewer? </p>
<p>Despite that, if I have to choose, I&#8217;m putting my vote in the &#8220;bad science reporting&#8221; category. The number of fraud cases in the US compared to the rest of the world is only a small part of the paper, and not even the most interesting part. And yet it gets the headline.</p>
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		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526604</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 07:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526604</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@NJ: Unfortunately.  Don&#039;t remind me of these things, it always makes me want to throw stuff at people.  I wonder if the general competence level is going down or if there are just so many people involved these days that it&#039;s easier to find people who don&#039;t know what they&#039;re doing.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NJ: Unfortunately.  Don&#8217;t remind me of these things, it always makes me want to throw stuff at people.  I wonder if the general competence level is going down or if there are just so many people involved these days that it&#8217;s easier to find people who don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re doing.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526603</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 04:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526603</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;The fact that proprietary closed-source software was used does not make the results unverifiable in this case. &lt;/em&gt;

Perhaps, perhaps not. It depends on which data are presented in a transformed way.  If they present all the raw data, then you are correct, if not, then you are not necessarily correct.  I&#039;d love to hear your argument.

Doesn&#039;t really matter anyway.  Regular use of proprietary numerical software is the same as regular use of proprietary lab bench machinery or methods.   ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The fact that proprietary closed-source software was used does not make the results unverifiable in this case. </em></p>
<p>Perhaps, perhaps not. It depends on which data are presented in a transformed way.  If they present all the raw data, then you are correct, if not, then you are not necessarily correct.  I&#8217;d love to hear your argument.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t really matter anyway.  Regular use of proprietary numerical software is the same as regular use of proprietary lab bench machinery or methods.   </p>
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		<title>
		By: NJ		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526602</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 02:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526602</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[MadScientist @ 7:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Suddenly there were all these expert wannabes who didn&#039;t understand the physics of X-ray diffraction who were making fantastic claims based on well-known artifacts&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Like claiming to have found weak superstructure peaks that were actually W La contamination peaks?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MadScientist @ 7:</p>
<blockquote><p>Suddenly there were all these expert wannabes who didn&#8217;t understand the physics of X-ray diffraction who were making fantastic claims based on well-known artifacts</p></blockquote>
<p>Like claiming to have found weak superstructure peaks that were actually W La contamination peaks?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lorax		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526601</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lorax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 02:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526601</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Eric You raise a reasonable issue with my &quot;first author&quot; rant. However, I respectfully contend that you are wrong in this instance. Yes fields and subfields use varying conventions. However, PubMed does not aggregate many experimental particle physics papers. The vast majority of papers in PubMed are funded by NIH or agencies that use NIH styles. Authorships that are not first or senior are not looked on favorably by these funding agencies and the last (senior) author is generally considered the go to person of primary responsibility.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eric You raise a reasonable issue with my &#8220;first author&#8221; rant. However, I respectfully contend that you are wrong in this instance. Yes fields and subfields use varying conventions. However, PubMed does not aggregate many experimental particle physics papers. The vast majority of papers in PubMed are funded by NIH or agencies that use NIH styles. Authorships that are not first or senior are not looked on favorably by these funding agencies and the last (senior) author is generally considered the go to person of primary responsibility.</p>
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		By: Miami Criminal Lawyer		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526600</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Miami Criminal Lawyer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 01:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526600</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The fact that proprietary closed-source software was used does not make the results unverifiable in this case. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that proprietary closed-source software was used does not make the results unverifiable in this case. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526599</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Nov 2010 01:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/17/an-excellent-example-of-either/#comment-526599</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kimbo: Exactly. This one is not the worst I&#039;ve seen but it is on the poor end of the spectrum, and there are examples of good press releases out there.  We bloggers need to be pushing the mean (and extremes) by pointing this out all the time. 

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimbo: Exactly. This one is not the worst I&#8217;ve seen but it is on the poor end of the spectrum, and there are examples of good press releases out there.  We bloggers need to be pushing the mean (and extremes) by pointing this out all the time. </p>
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