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	<title>
	Comments on: The Keith Olbermann Affair	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Stephanie Z		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525901</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 05:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525901</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gord, you&#039;ve hit the point where the only thing left to say is nice story, but you&#039;re saying that&#039;s how it works doesn&#039;t make it so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gord, you&#8217;ve hit the point where the only thing left to say is nice story, but you&#8217;re saying that&#8217;s how it works doesn&#8217;t make it so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: momkat		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525900</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[momkat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 00:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525900</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems that Gord&#039;s appellation is appropriate.  His head is hard-shelled like one and just as hollow.  They make nice rattly toys, though, to keep kids entertained.:p]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that Gord&#8217;s appellation is appropriate.  His head is hard-shelled like one and just as hollow.  They make nice rattly toys, though, to keep kids entertained.:p</p>
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		<title>
		By: Gord		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525899</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gord]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Nov 2010 00:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525899</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Your argument here is that Williams is somehow cleaner and more deserving of sympathy that Olbermann&quot;

Yes, because he was fired for a harmless remark that NPR chose, arbitrarily, to make a big deal of, unlike Olbermann who was suspended for violating a rule he knew existed. 

&quot;Want to tell me again he didn&#039;t do anything he&#039;d been told was wrong&quot;

Maybe you can tell us what NPR&#039;s official policy on what can and can&#039;t be said about Moslems is.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Your argument here is that Williams is somehow cleaner and more deserving of sympathy that Olbermann&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, because he was fired for a harmless remark that NPR chose, arbitrarily, to make a big deal of, unlike Olbermann who was suspended for violating a rule he knew existed. </p>
<p>&#8220;Want to tell me again he didn&#8217;t do anything he&#8217;d been told was wrong&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe you can tell us what NPR&#8217;s official policy on what can and can&#8217;t be said about Moslems is.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stephanie Z		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525898</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525898</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s a transcript of the Williams piece here: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/21/npr-fires-juan-williams/

What Williams says is confused and contradictory at best. It&#039;s quite possible he&#039;s against profiling from the reading, but that just isn&#039;t what he said. He did agree with O&#039;Reilly at several points. 

However, the article does note that he was told specifically not to be identified as an NPR correspondent while working for Fox, which despite you glossing over the fact, is a political organization. Then the transcript identifies him as an NPR employee. Want to tell me again he didn&#039;t do anything he&#039;d been told was wrong? 

Your argument here is that Williams is somehow cleaner and more deserving of sympathy that Olbermann, which is why the right was loudly angry about one and gloating about the other. You&#039;ve failed to show this at any point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a transcript of the Williams piece here: <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/21/npr-fires-juan-williams/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/21/npr-fires-juan-williams/</a></p>
<p>What Williams says is confused and contradictory at best. It&#8217;s quite possible he&#8217;s against profiling from the reading, but that just isn&#8217;t what he said. He did agree with O&#8217;Reilly at several points. </p>
<p>However, the article does note that he was told specifically not to be identified as an NPR correspondent while working for Fox, which despite you glossing over the fact, is a political organization. Then the transcript identifies him as an NPR employee. Want to tell me again he didn&#8217;t do anything he&#8217;d been told was wrong? </p>
<p>Your argument here is that Williams is somehow cleaner and more deserving of sympathy that Olbermann, which is why the right was loudly angry about one and gloating about the other. You&#8217;ve failed to show this at any point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525897</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525897</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[IF Scarborough sought and got permission (I don&#039;t trust the source) it really makes little difference that there is an inconstancy.  Or are you saying that the exact rule that was broken was not making the donation but not filling out the paper work? Is that still grounds for suspension, or, again, shouldn&#039;t there have been a talking to?

The idea that there was some sort of fiction regarding Countdown as a show is absurd, post hoc and simply untrue.  

Regarding Williams: Yes, I think you are exactly right about that, or at least, that is the feeling I had when it happened. But why is this so likely with NPR&#039;s case, but not for MSNBC, even though there is strong evidence that this is the case with the Olbermnn suspension? 

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IF Scarborough sought and got permission (I don&#8217;t trust the source) it really makes little difference that there is an inconstancy.  Or are you saying that the exact rule that was broken was not making the donation but not filling out the paper work? Is that still grounds for suspension, or, again, shouldn&#8217;t there have been a talking to?</p>
<p>The idea that there was some sort of fiction regarding Countdown as a show is absurd, post hoc and simply untrue.  </p>
<p>Regarding Williams: Yes, I think you are exactly right about that, or at least, that is the feeling I had when it happened. But why is this so likely with NPR&#8217;s case, but not for MSNBC, even though there is strong evidence that this is the case with the Olbermnn suspension? </p>
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		<title>
		By: Gord		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525896</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gord]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525896</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I suspect Williams was fired because his going on FOX annoyed his bosses, and they were looking for an excuse. 

Scarborough sought and recieved approval to make a donation. Also, because he is not a liberal like Olbermann, his bosses don&#039;t feel compelled to maintain the fiction he is unbiased.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect Williams was fired because his going on FOX annoyed his bosses, and they were looking for an excuse. </p>
<p>Scarborough sought and recieved approval to make a donation. Also, because he is not a liberal like Olbermann, his bosses don&#8217;t feel compelled to maintain the fiction he is unbiased.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525895</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525895</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Gord, yes, I know you think it&#039;s simple, but it is not.  For instance, have you asked yourself why either of these men were fired/suspended for their particular activity?  Why not just spoken to sternly by the appropriate internal administrators or editors/producers?  

I personally, by the way, thought Williams should not have been fired for that.  But I also think he is not good enough for NPR.  I&#039;ve always seen him as not exactly sharpest knife in the drawer.  Better for him that he be at fox. 

The basic problem with MSNBC&#039;s screwup is the simple fact that Joe Scarborough, who has a news summary morning show, did not get suspended when he donated 9 grand to a Republican candidate, but Keith Olbermann, who operates a highly opinionated liberal opinion show, got suspended when he gave Democrats 7 large.   

Explain that. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gord, yes, I know you think it&#8217;s simple, but it is not.  For instance, have you asked yourself why either of these men were fired/suspended for their particular activity?  Why not just spoken to sternly by the appropriate internal administrators or editors/producers?  </p>
<p>I personally, by the way, thought Williams should not have been fired for that.  But I also think he is not good enough for NPR.  I&#8217;ve always seen him as not exactly sharpest knife in the drawer.  Better for him that he be at fox. </p>
<p>The basic problem with MSNBC&#8217;s screwup is the simple fact that Joe Scarborough, who has a news summary morning show, did not get suspended when he donated 9 grand to a Republican candidate, but Keith Olbermann, who operates a highly opinionated liberal opinion show, got suspended when he gave Democrats 7 large.   </p>
<p>Explain that. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Gord		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525894</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gord]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 23:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525894</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stephanie: Williams admission Moslems make him nervous isn&#039;t &quot;poltical activism&quot;, and in his exchange with Bill O&#039;Reilly Williams was arguing against racial profiling.

Greg: It&#039;s not that complicated. I have more sympathy for someone fired arbitrarilly than someone suspended for violating an explicit policy they have been informed about. If NPR had told Williams not to discuss religion, or told him not to go on FOX it would be a different matter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie: Williams admission Moslems make him nervous isn&#8217;t &#8220;poltical activism&#8221;, and in his exchange with Bill O&#8217;Reilly Williams was arguing against racial profiling.</p>
<p>Greg: It&#8217;s not that complicated. I have more sympathy for someone fired arbitrarilly than someone suspended for violating an explicit policy they have been informed about. If NPR had told Williams not to discuss religion, or told him not to go on FOX it would be a different matter.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525893</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525893</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I still don&#039;t understand this:  &quot;Williams had no way of knowing what he said would get him fired&quot;

What does that have to do with anything?  Once and for all, are you making the claim that one can only be fired when one see it coming otherwise it is not a valid firing?  

You should be fired for thinking that. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still don&#8217;t understand this:  &#8220;Williams had no way of knowing what he said would get him fired&#8221;</p>
<p>What does that have to do with anything?  Once and for all, are you making the claim that one can only be fired when one see it coming otherwise it is not a valid firing?  </p>
<p>You should be fired for thinking that. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Stephanie Z		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525892</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/11/05/bernie-sanders-on-keith-olberm/#comment-525892</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Williams knew he wasn&#039;t to engage in political activism. What else is defending the &quot;all terrorists are Muslim&quot; statement by speaking out favorably on the subject of racial profiling? You&#039;ve already had this explained to you. Which part don&#039;t you get? Do you think it&#039;s not a political issue? Did someone else from NPR do something similar, with a history of working for a political organization like Fox, and not get fired? Do you think Williams is too dumb to understand that? I might be persuaded that this is the case, but you seem to be arguing the opposite.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Williams knew he wasn&#8217;t to engage in political activism. What else is defending the &#8220;all terrorists are Muslim&#8221; statement by speaking out favorably on the subject of racial profiling? You&#8217;ve already had this explained to you. Which part don&#8217;t you get? Do you think it&#8217;s not a political issue? Did someone else from NPR do something similar, with a history of working for a political organization like Fox, and not get fired? Do you think Williams is too dumb to understand that? I might be persuaded that this is the case, but you seem to be arguing the opposite.</p>
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