I think it’s the upright design of the Forrester that I find more comfortable. It certainly makes a difference to a tall guy like Ben. Now if we could just get a good diesel hybrid model. Maybe by the time we need another car.

They are very close in both rated mileage and reported mileage in places where people provide “real world” estimates, but of the two, the outback is heavier and has more horsepower, and is longer and wider. The Forrester is a tiny bit taller, and it is possible that the outback is slightly more aerodynamic. Physics says that the outback should have notably lower mileage in city driving but may make up the difference on the highway.

Of course, taking off the roof rack and selecting certain tires will probably make a bigger difference than actually exists between the two models.

But I have to admit, we did not buy the forrester vs. the outback based on any of these differences. The 5K difference in price made up our mind for us!

And that Smart belongs to a couple who run almost all their errands with a bike trailer instead of using any car.

Sure, but in the construction “is moot if”, the if cancels out the is and thus nothing is moot. Of course, since this Jag doesn’t really exist, the mooting is mooted as well.

Hydrogen gas takes up a lot of space. Cooling it close to absolute zero so you can carry it around negates its advantages. More efficient to use that solar generated electricity directly.

I’m not saying it’s a good idea (that remains to be seen)… I’m saying that there is an attraction to bottled pure energy (sort of) that can be produced from any source (as opposed to fossil fuels that so far have not been easily cheaply small scaly synthesized efficiently)

the Subaru Outback, Eddie Bauer edition. The parking lot of our REI flagship store was full of forest green and earth tone versions of it.

In Minnesota the cook car to own isa F-750 pickup truck with a hemi and external exhaust pipes on the side of the cab. I think it has nine wheels and can go from zero to 50 in six minutes while pulling a trailer full of swine.

But, at the REI parking lot (and we have a big-huge REI just south of town) … the same exact pattern, Outbacks –> Prius and now …> smart cars. So far only one smart car and I happen to know who owns it.

But, really, the Forrester is more efficient … those Outback driving yuppies are really all about luxory and not really about saving the environment.

Sounds like you have a very effective fleet. I hadn’t considered the hybrid bike. I wonder how the batteries would do in the cold.

http://www.egmcartech.com/2010/09/21/2010-paris-preview-peugeot-ex1-an-electric-concept-car-that-holds-some-world-records/

Power comes from two electric-motors, one on each axle, with a peak output of 340-hp and an available maximum torque of 177 lb-ft at the front and rear. The system offers four-wheel-drive, showing the benefits of HYbrid4 technology, available as standard on the 3008 from 2011, featuring an HDi FAP diesel engine at the front and an electric motor at the rear.

There, I was just pointing out that the delivery cost comparison was oriface-originated

I would agree with the orifice originated part of that statement. But the point is moot if you can’t capitalize on that natural gas once it reaches your house to reduce CO2 more than an electric line from say, a nuclear enhanced renewable grid (NERG).

This is one of the attractions of hydrogen, of course. You can make it a little windmill or solar ‘shops’ and people can load up on it more or less like they do now with gas.

Hydrogen gas takes up a lot of space. Cooling it close to absolute zero so you can carry it around negates its advantages. More efficient to use that solar generated electricity directly.

Yes, and with removable headlights, you can have the lights shining on the panels over night to keep the car charged!

Hopefully the panels would be grid tied, because panels that aren’t have little value. They spin your meter backwards. From a power plant’s view, an array of panels on a house is akin to having a magic wand that turns off all of your neighbors electricity on sunny days. You charge your car at night when demand and costs are lower off the grid, which would eventually be smaller and cleaner, given enough adopters of panels.

we live where at least one of us can walk to work and we have three cars for two drivers: A Suburu Forrest Hybrid for going fishing or driving somewhere far away (instead of flying); a smart car for the one commuter, and a pickup.

Here in Seattle the cool car to own (if you were liberal and progressive) several years back was the Subaru Outback, Eddie Bauer edition. The parking lot of our REI flagship store was full of forest green and earth tone versions of it. Today you can walk across that parking garage on the tops of Priuses.

My family lives where one of us does not have to commute. The other only commutes twice a week. In addition, I ride a hybrid electric bike of my own design for all in town errands Google Ultimate Seattle Hybrid.

One of our cars is a Prius. We also take it on camping and fishing trips. Works great with a cargo carrier on top although mileage drops to 40 mpg from 50.

I also have a 1989 Cherokee with 160 K miles on it, which sits idle until needed to pull a trailer or whatever. I call it my motorized wheelbarrow.

There, I was just pointing out that the delivery cost comparison was oriface-originated. A liquid or gas in a pipe across essentially flat land is pretty darn efficient. This is one of the attractions of hydrogen, of course. You can make it a little windmill or solar ‘shops’ and people can load up on it more or less like they do now with gas. You just need to make a network to cover differential production.

“Should we wait until the grid is carbon free, then start producing electric cars? Doesn’t it make more sense to do both in parallel?”

I think it makes sense to develop everything in parallel. Very few technologies ever come close to doing/not doing what pre-implementation seemingly smart people seem so willing to tell us they will/won’t do.

“A significant number of people who will be early adopters of the new electric cars will put solar panels on their roofs specifically to silence the critics, and they will be emulated because they will be the cool kids on the block.”

Yes, and with removable headlights, you can have the lights shining on the panels over night to keep the car charged!

Azkyroth: None of this matters (other than the interesting fact that the power companies totally control the wikipedia articles on all these related topics). The smart grid will be the solution. Right?