Comments on: Free the rivers!

By: NiteFlirt

NiteFlirt — Wed, 22 Dec 2010 16:53:37 +0000

All cultures have a set of beliefs that constitute the code of values and moral laws for that particular culture.

By: Jim Thomerson

Jim Thomerson — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 04:19:48 +0000

There is a subdivision in the Mississippi River Flood Plain in Illinois, near St Louis. It gets developed in periods of drought. Houses already there have the basements filled with sand to keep the water from crushing them. All have sump pumps pumping water out into the street gutters. Last time I was there, in a dry period, two new houses were under construction at the wettest end of the street.

By: MadScientist

MadScientist — Sun, 12 Sep 2010 04:01:25 +0000

@bob: Well, some types of farms are traditionally established on flood plains. I don’t know if there’s a good case for removing such farms. As for everyone else – developers like to sell a “waterside view” (and you can’t get any closer than having the water in your living room). Also, flood plains tend to be tempting to develop on because they’re so nice and flat. In Australia I see developments going up on flood plains all the time and I tell people they’re fucking morons because it’s so obvious it’s a flood plain (and there is always ample evidence of the last floods and how high they got etc, even if no one remembers a flood). Unfortunately people believe that (a) it hadn’t flooded there in the past 20 years so it must be OK, and (b) they can always build drainage ditches. People refuse to believe how big and expensive appropriate ditches (plus pumping stations) would be. In other areas which *have* been flooded, the government is wasting money putting in insufficient drainage – I guess it’s just to pretend like they’re doing something useful. I remember one tragedy in the mid-1990s in Australia; I had been to the site one year and commented about some absolutely stupid civil works – a road was essentially built that would act like a dam and it was pretty obvious there was a large collecting area too. I was expecting water to accumulate, knock out the road, and run right through a ski resort. That all happened the next year; people tell me that some folks had been complaining about the road for many years but the attitude had always been “nothing bad’s happened yet so it must be OK”. Another favorite of mine is building over dried creek beds – since it’s dry it’s obvious that there’s no creek there anymore (*rolls eyes*).

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 18:05:00 +0000

Of course, they could stop the carp:
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/101687193.html?elr=KArks:DCiUHc3E7_V_nDaycUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:52:33 +0000

All beavers should be captured an made into hats, dagnabbit.

Regarding musical chairs and mines: In the Twin Cities, in the bluffs of the river, there is a set of old mines originally dug by the company now known as 3M (as in Post-its). I’m convinced 3M has some intense methods for controlling press. A few years back as the first responders were removing a bunch of dead teanagers from one of the mines, the word “mine” and “3m” were used once or twice when first reporting the story, but quickly the press switched to “cave” — there are some natural caves as well, but these teen agers had suffocated in the mines, not the caves, which remain open.

By: Quietmarc

Quietmarc — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:37:13 +0000

Beaver dams are fine though, right? Cause they’re awesome.

By: bob koepp

bob koepp — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 12:46:26 +0000

Not only should the people living downstream move, we should be systematically dismantling human “developments” in the floodplains of all inland waterways (and in coastal areas, for that matter) and establishing green corridors. Politically, though, we’re nowhere even close to being able to make such changes.

By: MadScientist

MadScientist — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 11:01:54 +0000

@Greg: Ah, OK, I know that game of musical chairs. “It’s not our responsibility and we don’t have the money to do it anyway.” It usually ends pretty badly – everyone passes the buck until the goddamned thing collapses and kills people, then everyone points a finger at everyone else. It’s exactly the same story for abandoned mine sites – over 100 years of this bullshit and still no one ever takes responsibility.

By: MadScientist

MadScientist — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:56:42 +0000

@DuWayne: One class of dams which I’ll admit can be a huge nuisance (I totally forgot about them – shows how long since I’ve been on a working farm) are private dams maintained and operated by farmers. They’re often a nuisance even when operational, and if they’re abandoned they’re nothing but trouble. They’re almost as bad as mine tailings dams. Even farmers themselves often wish they didn’t need them, but no one wants to put up big bucks to solve some farmer’s problem – so they all address their problems individually and sometimes create a far bigger mess.

By: MadScientist

MadScientist — Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:50:35 +0000

Dams have numerous uses other than a source of hydroelectric power. Aside from supplying water to cities, some are essential for flood control. (Although if there’s too much water for them to handle, the dam may actually make the situation worse.) Anyway, a beaver’s got to build its dams, and boy do they make a mess.

As for old dams which are nothing but a hazard, diverting the river and sealing off the dam may be the best option for the larger dams (or even digging a diversion and dumping the rocks and dirt over the old dam).

One of the big problems with many existing dams is that (a) greenies whine about building yet more dams, which means that (b) more demand for water is placed on existing dams and (c) less water will be allowed to flow, resulting in (d) everything downstream is royally screwed. Another issue with many dams is the temperature of water released; many natural rivers are shallow enough that the water remains fairly warm, but even small dams can have much lower temperatures. Many rivers have such poor flow that leaching of metals and stagnation are huge problems as well. It’s just one of those things – dammed if you do, and dammed if you don’t.