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	Comments on: What to do about Bible-thumping students in the science classroom	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:46:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522829</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522829</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;My only reason ..&quot;

Is not even a reason, just petty revenge.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My only reason ..&#8221;</p>
<p>Is not even a reason, just petty revenge.</p>
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		<title>
		By: dean		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522828</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522828</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;My only reason for maybe disbelieving evolution is that people keep comparing the other side to global warming deniers, and I see how the science is messed up in that field.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The words &quot;denier&quot; and &quot;denialist&quot; apply to folks who express your opinion because, in the end, the person being referred to is denying, for no reason, scientific results (this refers to people like you who say the results are not correct not because of any valid reason or competing theory still discussed by scientists, but simply because you don&#039;t like the results).

anti-vaccination = deniai
doubting evolution = denial
doubting relativity = denial
doubting climate change = denial

The words fit.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My only reason for maybe disbelieving evolution is that people keep comparing the other side to global warming deniers, and I see how the science is messed up in that field.</p></blockquote>
<p>The words &#8220;denier&#8221; and &#8220;denialist&#8221; apply to folks who express your opinion because, in the end, the person being referred to is denying, for no reason, scientific results (this refers to people like you who say the results are not correct not because of any valid reason or competing theory still discussed by scientists, but simply because you don&#8217;t like the results).</p>
<p>anti-vaccination = deniai<br />
doubting evolution = denial<br />
doubting relativity = denial<br />
doubting climate change = denial</p>
<p>The words fit.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lionel A		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522827</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lionel A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522827</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;...and I see how the science is messed up in that field.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well your vision is faulty.   That is all I am saying about this OT twist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;and I see how the science is messed up in that field.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well your vision is faulty.   That is all I am saying about this OT twist.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MikeN		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522826</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 17:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522826</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[My only reason for maybe disbelieving evolution is that people keep comparing the other side to global warming deniers, and I see how the science is messed up in that field.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My only reason for maybe disbelieving evolution is that people keep comparing the other side to global warming deniers, and I see how the science is messed up in that field.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522825</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 16:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522825</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Copped to it in its parting shot. Which was still grammatically incorrect. &quot;That’s all, we’ll keep pumping out Creationist. Have fun with your endless game of wack-o-mole.&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copped to it in its parting shot. Which was still grammatically incorrect. &#8220;That’s all, we’ll keep pumping out Creationist. Have fun with your endless game of wack-o-mole.&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lionel A		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522824</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lionel A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2017 16:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522824</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I suspect our creationist mole has scurried off having entertained himself with a drive-by.  What a deluded &#039;piece of work&#039;!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect our creationist mole has scurried off having entertained himself with a drive-by.  What a deluded &#8216;piece of work&#8217;!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522823</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2017 19:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522823</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s even easier to answer every question a solipsist gives you. Just accept their terms of reference. Say you have proven their answer and if they do not, ask them how they know you have not given the proof?

Then punch them in the mouth and when they complain, say &quot;No I did not&quot;. If they disagree, then point out that there is no way to know reality and that they could be punching themselves. So punch them again and tell them to stop punching themselves.

Point out that if there is no objective reality there is no way to claim that they have not imagined being punched in the face a few times.

Oddly enough, very few solipsists will accept their precepts when it comes to pain that their mind has imagined has come from another person. They seem to be unable to accept that reality is merely an assumption when it hurts and they have an idea that asking someone else to stop will end the pain.

If you&#039;re small, get a couple of friends to hold them down.

After all, in trying to imagine being hurt by another they will clearly have to imagine some bigger people holding them down for this to work, else they would not be able to keep up the pretense of coherent reality which is merely a fantasy. Clearly they imagine that you have friends, just like they imagine you&#039;re not a figment of their imagination.

But you can just avoid the second bit. It really only amuses, it never really actually gets the solipsist to accept that there is a coherent true reality and that the bleeding of noses and breaking of teeth can be used to determine this really is happening.

Just telling them you&#039;ve given the proof is enough to work. They then have to prove their precepts incorrect to prove you have not.

Which is amusing in itself. Just a lot easier for them to accept the loss and pretend it never happened.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s even easier to answer every question a solipsist gives you. Just accept their terms of reference. Say you have proven their answer and if they do not, ask them how they know you have not given the proof?</p>
<p>Then punch them in the mouth and when they complain, say &#8220;No I did not&#8221;. If they disagree, then point out that there is no way to know reality and that they could be punching themselves. So punch them again and tell them to stop punching themselves.</p>
<p>Point out that if there is no objective reality there is no way to claim that they have not imagined being punched in the face a few times.</p>
<p>Oddly enough, very few solipsists will accept their precepts when it comes to pain that their mind has imagined has come from another person. They seem to be unable to accept that reality is merely an assumption when it hurts and they have an idea that asking someone else to stop will end the pain.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re small, get a couple of friends to hold them down.</p>
<p>After all, in trying to imagine being hurt by another they will clearly have to imagine some bigger people holding them down for this to work, else they would not be able to keep up the pretense of coherent reality which is merely a fantasy. Clearly they imagine that you have friends, just like they imagine you&#8217;re not a figment of their imagination.</p>
<p>But you can just avoid the second bit. It really only amuses, it never really actually gets the solipsist to accept that there is a coherent true reality and that the bleeding of noses and breaking of teeth can be used to determine this really is happening.</p>
<p>Just telling them you&#8217;ve given the proof is enough to work. They then have to prove their precepts incorrect to prove you have not.</p>
<p>Which is amusing in itself. Just a lot easier for them to accept the loss and pretend it never happened.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wow		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522822</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wow]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522822</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot; with questions they can’t answer.&quot;

It&#039;s also false.

I can quite easily answer ANY question such a student posed. At least to the same standard as the religious nuts use to prove their claims which they have no problem with doing.

Sure, I might not be able to hand over evidence and proof other than &quot;It&#039;s written in this book&quot;. But if htey complain the book was written by humans, then I&#039;ll point out so was the bible. Unless god gave them its personal copy it created out of nothing. Because I&#039;m pretty sure their bible has a list of the printer who printed that version and it won&#039;t be &quot;God. Heaven. Year 0&quot;. If they point out that the books of biology changed, I&#039;ll point out that god&#039;s words as written in the holy books have changed, and that they merely accepted one printed version of it. They may point to bits that science has &quot;proven wrong&quot;, but I&#039;ll just do like they do and say it&#039;s allegorical or that they have not the proper comprehension in the book to make correct inferences, therefore their claims are merely their problem.

And if they ask if I was there, I&#039;ll answer &quot;Yes&quot;. If they refuse to accept it, I will inquire if they were there to see who was, if they have proof I was not there.

Above all that, there will be many cases where there is abundant and irrefutable independent proofs too. Which is more than their religion has.

So on the balance of believability, my answers are better than theirs.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; with questions they can’t answer.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also false.</p>
<p>I can quite easily answer ANY question such a student posed. At least to the same standard as the religious nuts use to prove their claims which they have no problem with doing.</p>
<p>Sure, I might not be able to hand over evidence and proof other than &#8220;It&#8217;s written in this book&#8221;. But if htey complain the book was written by humans, then I&#8217;ll point out so was the bible. Unless god gave them its personal copy it created out of nothing. Because I&#8217;m pretty sure their bible has a list of the printer who printed that version and it won&#8217;t be &#8220;God. Heaven. Year 0&#8221;. If they point out that the books of biology changed, I&#8217;ll point out that god&#8217;s words as written in the holy books have changed, and that they merely accepted one printed version of it. They may point to bits that science has &#8220;proven wrong&#8221;, but I&#8217;ll just do like they do and say it&#8217;s allegorical or that they have not the proper comprehension in the book to make correct inferences, therefore their claims are merely their problem.</p>
<p>And if they ask if I was there, I&#8217;ll answer &#8220;Yes&#8221;. If they refuse to accept it, I will inquire if they were there to see who was, if they have proof I was not there.</p>
<p>Above all that, there will be many cases where there is abundant and irrefutable independent proofs too. Which is more than their religion has.</p>
<p>So on the balance of believability, my answers are better than theirs.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeff Harvey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff Harvey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As an evolutionary ecologist, I both cringe and laugh at people like Robert Sharkey. I read Doug Futuyma&#039;s Science on Trial: The Case for Evolution&#039;  years ago - it was written in 1982 - and in the Foreward Futuyma incredulously said that he was shocked that by that time there were still people who believed in creation and its subtle twin intelligent design. More importantly, he said that he felt compelled to write the book as an evolutionary biologist in order to counter creationist nonsense coming out of the Reagan administration, and that he was disappointed have to be writing a book defending what by then was already hard fact: evolution. 

So fast forward 35 years and creationist gibberish is still doing the rounds. I am sure that Futuyma is as shocked as anyone. There are still simpletons lacking and of the relevant expertise - like Robert Sharkey here - spewing out utter non-scientific bullshit that barely deserves to ge in a sandbox. No wonder many scientists around the world read articles like this with utter contempt. The Flat Earth Society is making a comeback as I write. I am sure that Sharkey is one of them as well.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an evolutionary ecologist, I both cringe and laugh at people like Robert Sharkey. I read Doug Futuyma&#8217;s Science on Trial: The Case for Evolution&#8217;  years ago &#8211; it was written in 1982 &#8211; and in the Foreward Futuyma incredulously said that he was shocked that by that time there were still people who believed in creation and its subtle twin intelligent design. More importantly, he said that he felt compelled to write the book as an evolutionary biologist in order to counter creationist nonsense coming out of the Reagan administration, and that he was disappointed have to be writing a book defending what by then was already hard fact: evolution. </p>
<p>So fast forward 35 years and creationist gibberish is still doing the rounds. I am sure that Futuyma is as shocked as anyone. There are still simpletons lacking and of the relevant expertise &#8211; like Robert Sharkey here &#8211; spewing out utter non-scientific bullshit that barely deserves to ge in a sandbox. No wonder many scientists around the world read articles like this with utter contempt. The Flat Earth Society is making a comeback as I write. I am sure that Sharkey is one of them as well.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lionel A		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522820</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lionel A]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Aug 2017 18:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/08/what-to-do-about-bible-thumpin/#comment-522820</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;My theory is, that students equipped with the means to counter Evolution are backing teachers into a corner with questions they can’t answer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is that really YOUR theory (which is not a theory in the scientific sense) or something taught to you at Liberty University?

Explain the Laryngeal nerve.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My theory is, that students equipped with the means to counter Evolution are backing teachers into a corner with questions they can’t answer.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is that really YOUR theory (which is not a theory in the scientific sense) or something taught to you at Liberty University?</p>
<p>Explain the Laryngeal nerve.</p>
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