<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss"
	xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>
	Comments on: Those were the days &#8230; when a  physicist could murder a counterfeiter in the name of the King	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2018 18:28:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>
	hourly	</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>
	1	</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.8</generator>
	<item>
		<title>
		By: Eric		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522868</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 01:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522868</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The latest statistic I have seen (in regards to USA) is that of all US money, 3% is cash and 97% is electronic. Which is faker? LOL Debased,mixed coins from Newton , or completely fictional ones that only have a tenuous &#039;virtual&#039; existence? Tenuous in the sense that, you know, say the power goes out for a week or two. I just don&#039;t know how so MANY of us play those long odds daily and still sleep at night.I lived through an extended power outage not so long ago ... I&#039;ll take the cash every time now, thank you.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latest statistic I have seen (in regards to USA) is that of all US money, 3% is cash and 97% is electronic. Which is faker? LOL Debased,mixed coins from Newton , or completely fictional ones that only have a tenuous &#8216;virtual&#8217; existence? Tenuous in the sense that, you know, say the power goes out for a week or two. I just don&#8217;t know how so MANY of us play those long odds daily and still sleep at night.I lived through an extended power outage not so long ago &#8230; I&#8217;ll take the cash every time now, thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: doug l		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522867</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[doug l]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522867</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t in most cases ascribe to the notion of objective morality. I&#039;m not sure how I or anyone could judge Newton back in the 17th century. I am however, lately finding out a lot about Newton that has astonished me not the least of which would be his presumed neurological peculiarities. I wonder if anyone here has read the series of books by Neal Stephenson that fall under the title of &quot;The Baroque Cycle&quot;. A marvelous read, well researched (though it is a work of fiction) and deeply immersive in the history of Newton, the Royal Society&#039;s finding and some of its original members, Newton&#039;s conflict with Liebnitz over the calculus and its implications, and Newton&#039;s role in transforming England and by extension the world&#039;s commercial landscape through the transformation of pre-mercantile civilization into the global wealth generating machine that it has, in many ways, become. Clever fellow that Newton.Cheers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t in most cases ascribe to the notion of objective morality. I&#8217;m not sure how I or anyone could judge Newton back in the 17th century. I am however, lately finding out a lot about Newton that has astonished me not the least of which would be his presumed neurological peculiarities. I wonder if anyone here has read the series of books by Neal Stephenson that fall under the title of &#8220;The Baroque Cycle&#8221;. A marvelous read, well researched (though it is a work of fiction) and deeply immersive in the history of Newton, the Royal Society&#8217;s finding and some of its original members, Newton&#8217;s conflict with Liebnitz over the calculus and its implications, and Newton&#8217;s role in transforming England and by extension the world&#8217;s commercial landscape through the transformation of pre-mercantile civilization into the global wealth generating machine that it has, in many ways, become. Clever fellow that Newton.Cheers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: MultiTool		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522866</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MultiTool]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522866</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@1
&lt;i&gt;counterfeiting would have expanded the money supply. Which is what the economy probably needed.&lt;/i&gt;
 
OK then, would you mind if I buy your car with $20,000 in counterfeit money?  

Don&#039;t worry, no one will know it is counterfeit until after the transaction.
  
  
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1<br />
<i>counterfeiting would have expanded the money supply. Which is what the economy probably needed.</i></p>
<p>OK then, would you mind if I buy your car with $20,000 in counterfeit money?  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t worry, no one will know it is counterfeit until after the transaction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: AnyEdge		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522865</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AnyEdge]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522865</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wait, are you saying that a physicist can &lt;i&gt;no longer&lt;/i&gt; murder a counterfeiter in the name of the king?  JESUS!  I&#039;ve got like, 30 or 40 people I have to go warn, immediately!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, are you saying that a physicist can <i>no longer</i> murder a counterfeiter in the name of the king?  JESUS!  I&#8217;ve got like, 30 or 40 people I have to go warn, immediately!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Eric Lund		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522864</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eric Lund]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522864</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;back when currency was made from or backed by valuable metals, economic growth could (and regularly was) restricted by an insufficient supply of said metals&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m currently reading this book (finished part 4 of 6 last night), and one of the topics it covers is the currency crisis of the 1690s. The cause, as Greg mentioned @3, was a shortage of coins due to merchants exploiting an arbitrage opportunity. Newton proposed at least two solutions to the problem, one of which (use of paper currency) was actually adopted at the time. The other was, in effect, a devaluation: decrease the amount of metal in the coins (the term &quot;pound sterling&quot;, of course, implies that one troy pound of silver was originally worth exactly that much; at todays spot prices you would need ~150 pounds of British currency to buy a troy pound of silver).

Gold and/or silver backed currencies are not immune from inflation. There are at least two examples in history: 16th century Spain (due to gold from the New World) and California circa 1850 (the Gold Rush).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>back when currency was made from or backed by valuable metals, economic growth could (and regularly was) restricted by an insufficient supply of said metals</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m currently reading this book (finished part 4 of 6 last night), and one of the topics it covers is the currency crisis of the 1690s. The cause, as Greg mentioned @3, was a shortage of coins due to merchants exploiting an arbitrage opportunity. Newton proposed at least two solutions to the problem, one of which (use of paper currency) was actually adopted at the time. The other was, in effect, a devaluation: decrease the amount of metal in the coins (the term &#8220;pound sterling&#8221;, of course, implies that one troy pound of silver was originally worth exactly that much; at todays spot prices you would need ~150 pounds of British currency to buy a troy pound of silver).</p>
<p>Gold and/or silver backed currencies are not immune from inflation. There are at least two examples in history: 16th century Spain (due to gold from the New World) and California circa 1850 (the Gold Rush).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: SLC		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522863</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SLC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 14:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522863</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Newton is much criticized for his investigations in alchemy.  However, given the knowledge of chemistry at the time, almost 200 years before the discovery of the periodic table, the notion that chemical processes might be able to transform lead into gold was not as far fetched as it appears today.  Newton, like the other investigators in alchemy at the time, had no knowledge of the theory of the atomic structure of elements and the notion that he might have developed such a theory is quite a stretch, given the experimental data available at the time.

It could well be argued that Newtons&#039; failure to turn lead into gold was productive in the sense that it provided evidence that it couldn&#039;t be done.  Experiments with negative results often lead to startling new theories (Michaelson/Morley experiment anyone).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newton is much criticized for his investigations in alchemy.  However, given the knowledge of chemistry at the time, almost 200 years before the discovery of the periodic table, the notion that chemical processes might be able to transform lead into gold was not as far fetched as it appears today.  Newton, like the other investigators in alchemy at the time, had no knowledge of the theory of the atomic structure of elements and the notion that he might have developed such a theory is quite a stretch, given the experimental data available at the time.</p>
<p>It could well be argued that Newtons&#8217; failure to turn lead into gold was productive in the sense that it provided evidence that it couldn&#8217;t be done.  Experiments with negative results often lead to startling new theories (Michaelson/Morley experiment anyone).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522862</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522862</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don, increasing the money supply, even if it causes inflation can increase the efficiency of transactions. If the smallest monetary unit is $10, then transactions for things of much lower value become cumbersome.  You can&#039;t easily distinguish between things that are worth $12 and $8 because you medium of exchange doesn&#039;t have enough resolution.  

This is actually a serious problem with internet transactions.  The monopoly that Visa, MC and other credit and debit card suppliers has a transaction fee structure that precludes micropayments.  If you could do micropayments, then things like time dependent electricity cost becomes a lot easier.  That would greatly increase the efficiency of electricity generation, transmission and use by incentivizing people to time-shift their electricity consumption. The only thing that is blocking it is the fee structure that banks demand for transactions.  Their monopoly power over transactions is a barrier to entry for other players with a different fee structure.   ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, increasing the money supply, even if it causes inflation can increase the efficiency of transactions. If the smallest monetary unit is $10, then transactions for things of much lower value become cumbersome.  You can&#8217;t easily distinguish between things that are worth $12 and $8 because you medium of exchange doesn&#8217;t have enough resolution.  </p>
<p>This is actually a serious problem with internet transactions.  The monopoly that Visa, MC and other credit and debit card suppliers has a transaction fee structure that precludes micropayments.  If you could do micropayments, then things like time dependent electricity cost becomes a lot easier.  That would greatly increase the efficiency of electricity generation, transmission and use by incentivizing people to time-shift their electricity consumption. The only thing that is blocking it is the fee structure that banks demand for transactions.  Their monopoly power over transactions is a barrier to entry for other players with a different fee structure.   </p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Phillip IV		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522861</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phillip IV]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:15:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522861</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Don Rowe @ #2:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Counterfeiting doesn&#039;t improve an economy, it improves the living standards of the counterfeiter at the expense of the economy (until (s)he is caught, anyway).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is generally true today, but not necessarily in the past - back when currency was made from or backed by valuable metals, economic growth could (and regularly was) restricted by an insufficient supply of said metals: because the money supply could not expand beyond the bullion supply, there as simply not enough money available to conduct all of the economic exchanges that would have been possible and beneficial. I can&#039;t say whether Chaloner&#039;s activities fell into such a period, but if they did, they would indeed have had a positive impact on the economy. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don Rowe @ #2:</p>
<blockquote><p>Counterfeiting doesn&#8217;t improve an economy, it improves the living standards of the counterfeiter at the expense of the economy (until (s)he is caught, anyway).</p></blockquote>
<p>That is generally true today, but not necessarily in the past &#8211; back when currency was made from or backed by valuable metals, economic growth could (and regularly was) restricted by an insufficient supply of said metals: because the money supply could not expand beyond the bullion supply, there as simply not enough money available to conduct all of the economic exchanges that would have been possible and beneficial. I can&#8217;t say whether Chaloner&#8217;s activities fell into such a period, but if they did, they would indeed have had a positive impact on the economy. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522860</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522860</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[James: &quot; ... one can see why the idea would have been attractive back in the late 17th century ...&quot;  Also, when you read Tom&#039;s book you&#039;ll see that this is more about the person than what he was doing. If the reports are to be believed, he was one of those &quot;worst nightmare&quot; sort of guys. 

Regarding the money supply, the main problem at the time was that the metal used to make coins in England was worth more melted down than the coins were worth, in France and elsewhere on the continent.  For this reason, the coins were disappearing faster than they could be stamped in some years.  Those melting the coins down would not have paid for the fake coinage (made of pewter, often, instead of silver).  The result would have been that all the coins would be fake.  Thus, leading us to a system where the money is not intrinsically valuable but still works as money.

So, yeah, more counterfeiting!!!  That could work!

Don: &quot;Counterfeiting doesn&#039;t improve an economy, it improves the living standards of the counterfeiter at the expense of the economy (until (s)he is caught, anyway).&quot;  Right, but then, the counterfeiting buys yachts and stuff thus creating jobs...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James: &#8221; &#8230; one can see why the idea would have been attractive back in the late 17th century &#8230;&#8221;  Also, when you read Tom&#8217;s book you&#8217;ll see that this is more about the person than what he was doing. If the reports are to be believed, he was one of those &#8220;worst nightmare&#8221; sort of guys. </p>
<p>Regarding the money supply, the main problem at the time was that the metal used to make coins in England was worth more melted down than the coins were worth, in France and elsewhere on the continent.  For this reason, the coins were disappearing faster than they could be stamped in some years.  Those melting the coins down would not have paid for the fake coinage (made of pewter, often, instead of silver).  The result would have been that all the coins would be fake.  Thus, leading us to a system where the money is not intrinsically valuable but still works as money.</p>
<p>So, yeah, more counterfeiting!!!  That could work!</p>
<p>Don: &#8220;Counterfeiting doesn&#8217;t improve an economy, it improves the living standards of the counterfeiter at the expense of the economy (until (s)he is caught, anyway).&#8221;  Right, but then, the counterfeiting buys yachts and stuff thus creating jobs&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
		<item>
		<title>
		By: Don Rowe		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522859</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Rowe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 08:21:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/09/07/those-were-the-days-when-a-phy/#comment-522859</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@1
Think of it in the extreme.  If all the money in an economy can purchase all the goods and services available (oversimplistic, but adequate for the example), and you simply add more money, all you do is devalue the goods &amp; services.

You still have the same amount of goods and services on which you can use money, there&#039;s just more bills/coins floating around.

Counterfeiting doesn&#039;t improve an economy, it improves the living standards of the counterfeiter at the expense of the economy (until (s)he is caught, anyway).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1<br />
Think of it in the extreme.  If all the money in an economy can purchase all the goods and services available (oversimplistic, but adequate for the example), and you simply add more money, all you do is devalue the goods &#038; services.</p>
<p>You still have the same amount of goods and services on which you can use money, there&#8217;s just more bills/coins floating around.</p>
<p>Counterfeiting doesn&#8217;t improve an economy, it improves the living standards of the counterfeiter at the expense of the economy (until (s)he is caught, anyway).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
			</item>
	</channel>
</rss>
