Comments on: What I had for brunch: A Trip to Bitch Lake

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:09:20 +0000

Here, as you surely know, we have “cows” everywhere. Boy cows and girl cows.

By: hoary puccoon

hoary puccoon — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 13:44:00 +0000

The traditional livelihood in my petit village was raising sheep, and, unlike your poor elk, there are still several herds of them around today. Yet I’ve hardly ever heard the word “mouton” (“sheep”, as I’m sure you knew.) The word the neighbors commonly use is “brebis” (“ewe.”) So, yes, it’s entirely possible that French explorers used “la biche” to indicate elk in general.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 12:00:01 +0000

Hoary, I ‘m glad you brought that up, because I went and checked on a couple of things, up at La Biche itself, last week.

1) There was a lake called La Biche.

2) A valid translation for La Biche is “The Hind” (meaning the female deer)

(Many North Americans must now be reminded that “deer” means: moose, elk, red deer, roe deer, mule deer, a few other deer, oh, and yes, white tailed deer. … North Americans generally go right to “white tail” when they hear “deer” … in essence, in modern US English, “deer” means Odocoileus virginianus, at least in much of the country east of the Rockies.)

At the time of La Biche, the common deer in the area was NOT the white-tail, but the American Elk (known in Europe as Red Deer).

It is known that La Biche was previously named by the Ojibwe as “Omashkoozo-zaaga’igan” which means “Elk Lake.” We assume the French, on calling the lake La Biche were simply translating the Native name.

When the name of Omashkoozo-zaaga’igan/La Biche was translated into English, it was translated to “Elk.”

So, yes, I know it is hard for Les French to hear that there are words that are French that they may have a hard time understanding, but it applies as well to the English (in this case, the actual meaning of “hind” or “doe”). It may well be that “Le Biche” simply means “the Elk” in the same way that, in South African English, “the Buck” means “The Antelope” even though it originally meant “the male antelope/deer.”

It may be worth noting as well that the French of which we speak here and the French of your petit village are separated by centuries and one or two cultural gulfs.

Sadly, there are no elk in Itasca today.

By: hoary puccoon

hoary puccoon — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:41:54 +0000

Greg Laden–
As long as you brought up this thread again, it may warm your heart to know that you* have been the cause of some happy laughter in a small, French village. The neighbors have asked me to inform you that the French know *all* the words for things they can eat. (Venison, especially from the local roe deer, is a popular delicacy in these parts.)

*When I say “you,” I mean that anonymously. I don’t think the neighbors would recognize your name, or hold this against you if they did, but why take the chance?

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:28:41 +0000

Doug: Indeed. One way occidento-normative types have handled that is to display the aboriginal people in the Natural History Museum.

Of course, all people have a place in the Natural History museum, but putting only certain people there leaves out certain truths.

By: RBH

RBH — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:19:45 +0000

One of my pleasant memories is from the 1960s when I worked on Franklin Avenue in south Minneapolis as a liaison between the University and the (mainly) Chippewa (yeah, I know: Ojibwe) population there. One weekend we drove up to Ponemah on the Red Lake res for a pow-wow, taking with us an old Chippewa woman and her youngest granddaughter, the latter around 5 years old. At grandmother's request we made a detour to Itasca so she and her granddaughter could see the source of the Mississippi for the first time for both of them. Watching granddaughter and grandmother holding hands crossing the creek shown in your pic generated a very good feeling that lasted right up until late that same night when a bunch of Oglala Lakota from Pine Ridge res decided to show those Chippewas how to really dance after the tourists had gone.

By: doug l

doug l — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 03:07:12 +0000

Very interesting. Of course it should be kept in mind that by the time European’s arrived finally arrived with modern records, the original populations of indigenous people had already been greatly reduced by introduced diseases in some cases a hundred years and more prior to that, so that what we might consider the natural scene,based on old written records, the original range of wild-life and even the presence of ‘old trees’ might not have been the same as it was when those now decimated populations were there actively extracting resources and modifiying the land with fire and selective harvesting plants and trees, as well as constraining the wild populations of animals, for many generations prior to the euro-epidemics. The pristine and empty wilderness where indigenous people were retiring hunter gatherers living in harmony in an empty land might very well be a myth that was perpetuated to further the dreams of manifest destiny. Cheers

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:23:21 +0000

Eric: The French do something similar, as to the English. US Elk = Red Deer in England cerf noble or Ã©laphe in French; US Moose = Elk in England, Ã©lan in France. Hind and boe (in English) are biche in French, not specific to species.

By: Eric Lund

Eric Lund — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 20:51:33 +0000

@7: Depending on the exact timing, there may be something to that theory. Apparently the Swedish word for moose is älg, which is cognate to "elk". I don't know if the French do something similar (which the Swedes may have borrowed when they imported a king from France), or when Swedish immigrants started settling in Minnesota.

By: hoary puccoon

hoary puccoon — Mon, 16 Aug 2010 17:43:27 +0000

Greg Laden @6–
In my particular corner of French speaking land (the old hexagon itself) deer, especially roe deer, on the roads are a serious traffic hazard. I’ve never heard anyone make a joke about “les biches” being a real bitch, but then none of my neighbors speaks English.