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	Comments on: Flight 103 from Frankfurt	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Drivebyposter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519571</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drivebyposter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 16:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519571</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Interesting. I had done a report on Qaddafi in 11th grade. Never could really get a good answer as to why he would want to blow up a plane over Scotland. It just never added up to me. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I had done a report on Qaddafi in 11th grade. Never could really get a good answer as to why he would want to blow up a plane over Scotland. It just never added up to me. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Aquinas Dad		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519570</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aquinas Dad]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519570</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sorry, labeling Hamas a terrorist organization isn&#039;t &#039;controversial&#039;. They proudly staged a large number of suicide bombing attacks that purposefully targeting civilians and innovated the use of poison withint suicide bomb shrapnel to increase fatalities and complicate medical response. 
 As for the rocket attacks, Human Rights Watch has repeatedly called this attacks war crimes and terrorist acts purposefully aimed at civilians. Hamas and other related and similar organizations admit that they try to time the rocket and mortar attacks with when Israeli children are travelling to and from school. They also admit that they purposefully fire from residential neighborhoods, mosques, and schools so that counter-attacks are more likely to harm Palestinian civilians to harm Israel&#039;s image abroad.
  Lastly, Adbel Aziz Rantisi, a leader of Hamas, has repeatedly referred to the tactics of Hamas as &#039;terrorism&#039;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, labeling Hamas a terrorist organization isn&#8217;t &#8216;controversial&#8217;. They proudly staged a large number of suicide bombing attacks that purposefully targeting civilians and innovated the use of poison withint suicide bomb shrapnel to increase fatalities and complicate medical response.<br />
 As for the rocket attacks, Human Rights Watch has repeatedly called this attacks war crimes and terrorist acts purposefully aimed at civilians. Hamas and other related and similar organizations admit that they try to time the rocket and mortar attacks with when Israeli children are travelling to and from school. They also admit that they purposefully fire from residential neighborhoods, mosques, and schools so that counter-attacks are more likely to harm Palestinian civilians to harm Israel&#8217;s image abroad.<br />
  Lastly, Adbel Aziz Rantisi, a leader of Hamas, has repeatedly referred to the tactics of Hamas as &#8216;terrorism&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Birger Johansson		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519569</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Birger Johansson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:12:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519569</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Itzac, there are a lot of organizations in Gaza, many of whom are more radical than Hamas. Hamas itself is not a clone of Hizbollah (completely different branches of Islam, different allies in the Arab world) nor is it a monolithic movement. 
As for the terrorism label it is controversial; while there are groups in Gaza that have done bona fide terrorst attacks (that is, deliberately aimed at civilian targets) the only accusation against Hamas that may stick is the launching of unguided rockets (which actually killed some arabs working in Israel) but to my knowledge &quot;friendly fire&quot; by Israeli forces have killed more israelis than the rockets.
The blockade against Gaza is putatively amined at undermining Hamas, but in reality it has strenghtened those groups in Gaza who regard Hamas as an &quot;Uncle Tom&quot;.

Going back to the 1980s bombings, there is still speculation that the attack in Germany was the work of Syria, but since Syria had state-of-the-art anti-aircraft missiles going after Syrian targets would have been too risky. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Itzac, there are a lot of organizations in Gaza, many of whom are more radical than Hamas. Hamas itself is not a clone of Hizbollah (completely different branches of Islam, different allies in the Arab world) nor is it a monolithic movement.<br />
As for the terrorism label it is controversial; while there are groups in Gaza that have done bona fide terrorst attacks (that is, deliberately aimed at civilian targets) the only accusation against Hamas that may stick is the launching of unguided rockets (which actually killed some arabs working in Israel) but to my knowledge &#8220;friendly fire&#8221; by Israeli forces have killed more israelis than the rockets.<br />
The blockade against Gaza is putatively amined at undermining Hamas, but in reality it has strenghtened those groups in Gaza who regard Hamas as an &#8220;Uncle Tom&#8221;.</p>
<p>Going back to the 1980s bombings, there is still speculation that the attack in Germany was the work of Syria, but since Syria had state-of-the-art anti-aircraft missiles going after Syrian targets would have been too risky. </p>
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		<title>
		By: itzac		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519568</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[itzac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 05:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519568</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Iaim, Hesbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations. They engage in terrorist activities. They do also provide social services to people who would otherwise go unserved. They are probably some of the best reminders that the world is truly far more complicated than most people are willing to admit.

Greg, if you haven&#039;t already read it, you&#039;d probably enjoy Confessions of an Economic Hitman.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iaim, Hesbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations. They engage in terrorist activities. They do also provide social services to people who would otherwise go unserved. They are probably some of the best reminders that the world is truly far more complicated than most people are willing to admit.</p>
<p>Greg, if you haven&#8217;t already read it, you&#8217;d probably enjoy Confessions of an Economic Hitman.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Vince Whirlwind		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519567</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Vince Whirlwind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519567</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &quot;Libya did it&quot; line lacked credibility from the outset.
Years later it has even less.
 
Still, giving the terrorism-sponsoring state of Libya a well-deserved pounding wasn&#039;t the worst thing the US government did that decade, not by a long mile, considering it was also the decade when the USA was found guilty of terrorist activity in an international court in relation to its despicable actions in Nicaragua.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Libya did it&#8221; line lacked credibility from the outset.<br />
Years later it has even less.</p>
<p>Still, giving the terrorism-sponsoring state of Libya a well-deserved pounding wasn&#8217;t the worst thing the US government did that decade, not by a long mile, considering it was also the decade when the USA was found guilty of terrorist activity in an international court in relation to its despicable actions in Nicaragua.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519566</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519566</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Frank Duggan, you are an idiot.

You claim to represent the families of those who lost people in Pan Am 103.  If you don&#039;t like what I say here, or if you don&#039;t like what other people say on their sites (including news sites), why do you merely show up and dump crap all over the place? Do you have a rational argument?  Do you have something useful or important to say?  Or are you just a troll?

As indicated in the post, I almost got on that fucking plane.  That does not place me in a position at all similar to those who DID get on the plane, but it does give me an extra sharp sense of wanting to know what happened.  Is that irrelevant to you? 

If I was one of the members of Families of 103, I&#039;d ask you to step down and be replaced with someone who actually has something useful to say.  (or has that already happened?) I am perfectly willing to entertain ideas different from those stated in this post.  But I am not interested in having you walk into my blog and pee on the carpet.  

You&#039;re choice. Your next comment will be polite even if it strongly disagrees strongly with my post, or you are not welcome to use my blog as a platform.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank Duggan, you are an idiot.</p>
<p>You claim to represent the families of those who lost people in Pan Am 103.  If you don&#8217;t like what I say here, or if you don&#8217;t like what other people say on their sites (including news sites), why do you merely show up and dump crap all over the place? Do you have a rational argument?  Do you have something useful or important to say?  Or are you just a troll?</p>
<p>As indicated in the post, I almost got on that fucking plane.  That does not place me in a position at all similar to those who DID get on the plane, but it does give me an extra sharp sense of wanting to know what happened.  Is that irrelevant to you? </p>
<p>If I was one of the members of Families of 103, I&#8217;d ask you to step down and be replaced with someone who actually has something useful to say.  (or has that already happened?) I am perfectly willing to entertain ideas different from those stated in this post.  But I am not interested in having you walk into my blog and pee on the carpet.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re choice. Your next comment will be polite even if it strongly disagrees strongly with my post, or you are not welcome to use my blog as a platform.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Frank Duggan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519565</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Duggan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519565</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Congratulations. You have now joined the large group of goofy conspiracy mavens shilling for Libya. They are not to be believed, but at least they can spell the name of the country. Do you not have Spell Check?
Frank Duggan]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations. You have now joined the large group of goofy conspiracy mavens shilling for Libya. They are not to be believed, but at least they can spell the name of the country. Do you not have Spell Check?<br />
Frank Duggan</p>
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		<title>
		By: cfeagans		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519564</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cfeagans]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 06:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519564</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt; April 1986... All eyes are on the TVâ??s mounted over the bar, where we watch footage of an air strike against Lybia.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Interestingly enough, I was in Honduras as a military policeman assigned security to U.S. military VIPs who were flown to the border of Nicaragua to inspect the bodies and gear of the Sandinistas that were killed chasing Contras back across the border into Honduras from Nicaragua. One estimate of the number of Sandinistas killed that I heard was 200. To put it bluntly, neither the Honduran military nor the Contras had the capability to do that kind of damage. Only one military in the region had that kind of fire-power.

I&#039;m not saying the bombing of Libya was an intended distraction, but it certainly was convenient at a time when the U.S. was getting a lot of heat from its involvement in trying to upset the Sandinista government.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p> April 1986&#8230; All eyes are on the TVâ??s mounted over the bar, where we watch footage of an air strike against Lybia.</p></blockquote>
<p>Interestingly enough, I was in Honduras as a military policeman assigned security to U.S. military VIPs who were flown to the border of Nicaragua to inspect the bodies and gear of the Sandinistas that were killed chasing Contras back across the border into Honduras from Nicaragua. One estimate of the number of Sandinistas killed that I heard was 200. To put it bluntly, neither the Honduran military nor the Contras had the capability to do that kind of damage. Only one military in the region had that kind of fire-power.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying the bombing of Libya was an intended distraction, but it certainly was convenient at a time when the U.S. was getting a lot of heat from its involvement in trying to upset the Sandinista government.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Iaim		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519563</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Iaim]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 23:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519563</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nikki&#039;s comment resonates with comment I read somewhere to the effect that the appeal of Ahmedinejad in Iran is that he has provided services to regional centres otherwise excluded by the power elites in Tehran.  Similarly, there was comment before the elections to the effect that one could believe that Hamas probably won the last election in Palestine because they were providing services for more people than Fatah.
It is really ironical that sometimes US policy is so afraid of popular movements that they misjudge them for terrorist groups; that the obsessive pursuit of a particular model of democracy, or of particular outcomes of democratic processes, lead to the misidentification of how governments can achieve the objectives of democracy.
I am glad you survived.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikki&#8217;s comment resonates with comment I read somewhere to the effect that the appeal of Ahmedinejad in Iran is that he has provided services to regional centres otherwise excluded by the power elites in Tehran.  Similarly, there was comment before the elections to the effect that one could believe that Hamas probably won the last election in Palestine because they were providing services for more people than Fatah.<br />
It is really ironical that sometimes US policy is so afraid of popular movements that they misjudge them for terrorist groups; that the obsessive pursuit of a particular model of democracy, or of particular outcomes of democratic processes, lead to the misidentification of how governments can achieve the objectives of democracy.<br />
I am glad you survived.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Toast		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519562</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Toast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 20:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/07/03/flight-103-from-frankfurt-2/#comment-519562</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.private-eye.co.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Private Eye&lt;/a&gt; (a two-weekly UK mag) has a commentary/analysis. Unfortunately it&#039;s Â£5.00 for non-subscribers. 
Excerpt from &quot;Report on and evaluation of the Lockerbie Trial conducted by the special Scottish Court in the Netherlands at Kamp van Zeist&quot;

&lt;i&gt;A general pattern of the trial consisted in the fact
that virtually all people presented by the prosecution
as key witnesses were proven to lack credibility to a
very high extent, in certain cases even having openly
lied to the Court. Particularly as regards Mr. Bollier
and Mr. Giaka, there were so many inconsistencies in
their statements and open contradictions to statements
of other witnesses that the resulting confusion was
much greater than any clarification that may have
been obtained from parts of their statements. Their
credibility as such was shaken. It seems highly
arbitrary and irrational to choose only parts of their
statements for the formulation of a verdict that
requires certainty â??beyond any reasonable doubt.â?&lt;/i&gt;

(by Dr. Hans KÃ¶chler, University Professor, international observer of the
International Progress Organization nominated by United Nations)


There&#039;s a whole load more - the whole thing&#039;s over 30 pages PDF

I don&#039;t feel able to give you much more in an open blog - with being a subscriber and all. Email me. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.private-eye.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">Private Eye</a> (a two-weekly UK mag) has a commentary/analysis. Unfortunately it&#8217;s Â£5.00 for non-subscribers.<br />
Excerpt from &#8220;Report on and evaluation of the Lockerbie Trial conducted by the special Scottish Court in the Netherlands at Kamp van Zeist&#8221;</p>
<p><i>A general pattern of the trial consisted in the fact<br />
that virtually all people presented by the prosecution<br />
as key witnesses were proven to lack credibility to a<br />
very high extent, in certain cases even having openly<br />
lied to the Court. Particularly as regards Mr. Bollier<br />
and Mr. Giaka, there were so many inconsistencies in<br />
their statements and open contradictions to statements<br />
of other witnesses that the resulting confusion was<br />
much greater than any clarification that may have<br />
been obtained from parts of their statements. Their<br />
credibility as such was shaken. It seems highly<br />
arbitrary and irrational to choose only parts of their<br />
statements for the formulation of a verdict that<br />
requires certainty â??beyond any reasonable doubt.â?</i></p>
<p>(by Dr. Hans KÃ¶chler, University Professor, international observer of the<br />
International Progress Organization nominated by United Nations)</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a whole load more &#8211; the whole thing&#8217;s over 30 pages PDF</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t feel able to give you much more in an open blog &#8211; with being a subscriber and all. Email me. </p>
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