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	<title>
	Comments on: The Evolution of Asshatitude on The Internet	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Jason G. Goldman		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518383</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason G. Goldman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2010 04:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518383</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Oh, how I wish I had seen this a week ago.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, how I wish I had seen this a week ago.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518382</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 14:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518382</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Females, especially human females, are pretty sneaky when it comes to evading being guarded by mates. In exchange for meat or glass beads Efe women may well have been meeting Matini out in the bush for sex. Only they know and they&#039;re not telling. &lt;/em&gt;

Yes, they are sneaky, but this is in the context of along term behavioral study.  Not only do we know a lot about mate guarding among the Efe, but I was with Matini day and night for most of his time in the area.  I&#039;m personally convinced that paternity attribution among the Efe is as close to accurate as we would generally see in any society.  

&lt;em&gt;You forgot c) the only women who&#039;d mate with Matini are either stupid or desperate, both traits which will leave his offspring disadvantaged in the long run.&lt;/em&gt;

I should add that about 10 percent of the women (and the sex ratio is about 50-50) marry out of the Efe, while exactly 0% of the men marry out.  (Thus the mate guarding.)  So it is very hard to find a woman who is of age and not married.

This is not widely acknowledged, but I&#039;ve observed polyandry here as well (in low frequency).  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Females, especially human females, are pretty sneaky when it comes to evading being guarded by mates. In exchange for meat or glass beads Efe women may well have been meeting Matini out in the bush for sex. Only they know and they&#8217;re not telling. </em></p>
<p>Yes, they are sneaky, but this is in the context of along term behavioral study.  Not only do we know a lot about mate guarding among the Efe, but I was with Matini day and night for most of his time in the area.  I&#8217;m personally convinced that paternity attribution among the Efe is as close to accurate as we would generally see in any society.  </p>
<p><em>You forgot c) the only women who&#8217;d mate with Matini are either stupid or desperate, both traits which will leave his offspring disadvantaged in the long run.</em></p>
<p>I should add that about 10 percent of the women (and the sex ratio is about 50-50) marry out of the Efe, while exactly 0% of the men marry out.  (Thus the mate guarding.)  So it is very hard to find a woman who is of age and not married.</p>
<p>This is not widely acknowledged, but I&#8217;ve observed polyandry here as well (in low frequency).  </p>
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		<title>
		By: darwinsdog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518381</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[darwinsdog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 14:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518381</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[a) Phenotype (including behavior) = genetic component x environmental component x nonadditive (genetic x environmental) component x dominance component. Seldom if ever is any phenotypic attribute &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; environmental (or genetic).

b) Females, especially human females, are pretty sneaky when it comes to evading being guarded by mates. In exchange for meat or glass beads Efe women may well have been meeting Matini out in the bush for sex. Only they know and they&#039;re not telling. 

c) I don&#039;t think that Matini much cares about that, zyan.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a) Phenotype (including behavior) = genetic component x environmental component x nonadditive (genetic x environmental) component x dominance component. Seldom if ever is any phenotypic attribute <i>entirely</i> environmental (or genetic).</p>
<p>b) Females, especially human females, are pretty sneaky when it comes to evading being guarded by mates. In exchange for meat or glass beads Efe women may well have been meeting Matini out in the bush for sex. Only they know and they&#8217;re not telling. </p>
<p>c) I don&#8217;t think that Matini much cares about that, zyan.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oedipus Maximus		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518380</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oedipus Maximus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 10:38:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518380</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[After reading DuWayne (#14), I was reminded of http://www.pointofinquiry.org/carol_tavris_mistakes_were_made . Her book is required reading for mankind, I think.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading DuWayne (#14), I was reminded of <a href="http://www.pointofinquiry.org/carol_tavris_mistakes_were_made" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.pointofinquiry.org/carol_tavris_mistakes_were_made</a> . Her book is required reading for mankind, I think.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Oedipus Maximus		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518379</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Oedipus Maximus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 10:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518379</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this.  It summarizes why I&#039;m pessimistic about the blogosphere and contains some insights which had not occurred to me.

I think the main driving factor (or at least one of the main) is what you mentioned near the end: human power relations. We want to feel special, unique, valued, and recognized. These goals are likely to be obtainable in small hunter/gatherer groups. But in the massive alien environment of the Internet it&#039;s nearly impossible. So we take shortcuts to obtain a modicum of short-term satisfaction, in the absence of any long term hopes. And this is done quite easily by a sprinkling of snarkiness, condescension, and vilification. We can walk away from our computer with the smug satisfaction, however small, that we demonstrated our specialness, uniqueness, and value in relation to others. Add to this the postulate that feelings of powerlessness increase in relation to time spent on the Internet, and you have a self-perpetuating cycle.

This is my stereotypical characterization of blogosphere participants who seem to be, for lack of a better word, unhealthy. To some degree it applies to each of us. But we also have control over that degree.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this.  It summarizes why I&#8217;m pessimistic about the blogosphere and contains some insights which had not occurred to me.</p>
<p>I think the main driving factor (or at least one of the main) is what you mentioned near the end: human power relations. We want to feel special, unique, valued, and recognized. These goals are likely to be obtainable in small hunter/gatherer groups. But in the massive alien environment of the Internet it&#8217;s nearly impossible. So we take shortcuts to obtain a modicum of short-term satisfaction, in the absence of any long term hopes. And this is done quite easily by a sprinkling of snarkiness, condescension, and vilification. We can walk away from our computer with the smug satisfaction, however small, that we demonstrated our specialness, uniqueness, and value in relation to others. Add to this the postulate that feelings of powerlessness increase in relation to time spent on the Internet, and you have a self-perpetuating cycle.</p>
<p>This is my stereotypical characterization of blogosphere participants who seem to be, for lack of a better word, unhealthy. To some degree it applies to each of us. But we also have control over that degree.</p>
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		<title>
		By: zyan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518378</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[zyan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 19:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518378</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You forgot c) the only women who&#039;d mate with Matini are either stupid or desperate, both traits which will leave his offspring disadvantaged in the long run.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You forgot c) the only women who&#8217;d mate with Matini are either stupid or desperate, both traits which will leave his offspring disadvantaged in the long run.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518377</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 16:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518377</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Guys like Matini may be traveling from group to group fathering children and thereby perpetuating whatever genetic component to the propensity for being selfish there may be. In between times he&#039;s out in the forest alone, where he doesn&#039;t have to share whatever he catches. &lt;/em&gt;

In theory, yes.  But a) attitude about sharing is known to be entirely learned and not genetic and b) with the Efe, there is a strong tendency towards &quot;mate guarding.&quot;  Matini was not getting any where near any of the women.  But in other societies that may be very different. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Guys like Matini may be traveling from group to group fathering children and thereby perpetuating whatever genetic component to the propensity for being selfish there may be. In between times he&#8217;s out in the forest alone, where he doesn&#8217;t have to share whatever he catches. </em></p>
<p>In theory, yes.  But a) attitude about sharing is known to be entirely learned and not genetic and b) with the Efe, there is a strong tendency towards &#8220;mate guarding.&#8221;  Matini was not getting any where near any of the women.  But in other societies that may be very different. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518376</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 16:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518376</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tony Sidaway: I would like to point out that the comments on my recent post regarding breathing through the skin is a great example of how the comments can make the post. I&#039;ll take credit in this case for creating a situation in which that would happen ... I suspected/hoped that certain commenters would chime in with good info and ideas, and they did.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Sidaway: I would like to point out that the comments on my recent post regarding breathing through the skin is a great example of how the comments can make the post. I&#8217;ll take credit in this case for creating a situation in which that would happen &#8230; I suspected/hoped that certain commenters would chime in with good info and ideas, and they did.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518375</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 16:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518375</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Becca: &lt;em&gt;When someone is *only* shifted toward A when they&#039;ve got something to loose, &#039;making nice&#039; can look like &#039;abandoning your principles&#039;. &lt;/em&gt;

Yes.  But if it is someone else who will suffer the loss ... e.g. you might want your lawyer to suddenly get nice to the irate judge. It is a slippery slope from cranking down the snark to appeasement, but the truth is that we often find ourselves clinging to that slope out of need. Greater need. 

&lt;em&gt;More often, I get mad at people for shifting toward F with those that have less power- that makes you look like a bully. &lt;/em&gt;

That is practically the definition of a bully. 

&lt;em&gt;Of course doing the opposite, as is my wont, makes you an *idiot*.&lt;/em&gt;

Wait ... who you calling an idiot!?!?!?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becca: <em>When someone is *only* shifted toward A when they&#8217;ve got something to loose, &#8216;making nice&#8217; can look like &#8216;abandoning your principles&#8217;. </em></p>
<p>Yes.  But if it is someone else who will suffer the loss &#8230; e.g. you might want your lawyer to suddenly get nice to the irate judge. It is a slippery slope from cranking down the snark to appeasement, but the truth is that we often find ourselves clinging to that slope out of need. Greater need. </p>
<p><em>More often, I get mad at people for shifting toward F with those that have less power- that makes you look like a bully. </em></p>
<p>That is practically the definition of a bully. </p>
<p><em>Of course doing the opposite, as is my wont, makes you an *idiot*.</em></p>
<p>Wait &#8230; who you calling an idiot!?!?!?</p>
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		<title>
		By: darwinsdog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518374</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[darwinsdog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 14:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/05/15/the-evolution-of-asshatitude-o/#comment-518374</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Guys like Matini may be traveling from group to group fathering children and thereby perpetuating whatever genetic component to the propensity for being selfish there may be. In between times he&#039;s out in the forest alone, where he doesn&#039;t have to share whatever he catches. 

In real life people affect niceties because if they didn&#039;t they&#039;d get punched in the face. On the internet people are free to be the kind of asshole they&#039;d be in real life if they could get away with it. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys like Matini may be traveling from group to group fathering children and thereby perpetuating whatever genetic component to the propensity for being selfish there may be. In between times he&#8217;s out in the forest alone, where he doesn&#8217;t have to share whatever he catches. </p>
<p>In real life people affect niceties because if they didn&#8217;t they&#8217;d get punched in the face. On the internet people are free to be the kind of asshole they&#8217;d be in real life if they could get away with it. </p>
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