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	Comments on: Social Justice in the Tea, Chai, Rooibos, Aardwolf &#8230; Everything is connected to everything else.	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:43:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: kleigh		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516733</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kleigh]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Oct 2011 07:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516733</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[it killlllllllls me when I go to a restuarant and order &quot;tea-tea&quot; or tea-latte! its MA-SA-LA people,masala!!!!
CHAI means TEA!! It is the MASALA that means tea with spices different...than ordinary black tea which can be CHAI.
I liked your post blogger!my 2 cents..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it killlllllllls me when I go to a restuarant and order &#8220;tea-tea&#8221; or tea-latte! its MA-SA-LA people,masala!!!!<br />
CHAI means TEA!! It is the MASALA that means tea with spices different&#8230;than ordinary black tea which can be CHAI.<br />
I liked your post blogger!my 2 cents..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jenny Bloom		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516732</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jenny Bloom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 09:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516732</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In some parts of Asia, Southeast Asia specifically, they call it &quot;cha&quot;, and I believe it&#039;s a Chinese word for tea, just like what Kerrick stated above in his comment.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In some parts of Asia, Southeast Asia specifically, they call it &#8220;cha&#8221;, and I believe it&#8217;s a Chinese word for tea, just like what Kerrick stated above in his comment.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516731</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516731</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I think it is clear that in American English (at least) &quot;tea&quot; is the word for &quot;infusion&quot; be it pepperment, tea-tea, manure/compost, or even mixtures of alcohols.  In South Africa, &quot;tea&quot; means the same thing as far as I know ... pretty much any infusion.  Probably elsewhere as well.  

Most speakers of English around the world, and other languages use the word &quot;chai&quot; for &quot;tea.&quot;  As far as I know, only those sold on &quot;chai masala&quot; as &quot;chai&quot; in the use think &quot;chai&quot; means something other that &quot;tea, usually tea-tea.&quot;

It is perfectly fine for Americans to adopt the word everyone else uses for a species specific but general kind of beverage to mean a certain mixture (which would be like, say, Australians thinking that &quot;coffee&quot; was coffee with cream and sugar and a sprinkle of nutmeg), and a different word  for the same exact drink for anything from  the same species specific infusion to cow shit in water that you spread on your lawn.  It&#039;s just that some of those usages are going to sound funny for people with different (and equally valid) linguistic experiences. Like those who speak English but are either not American or who have lived and/or traveled in other countries a lot.  

 ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is clear that in American English (at least) &#8220;tea&#8221; is the word for &#8220;infusion&#8221; be it pepperment, tea-tea, manure/compost, or even mixtures of alcohols.  In South Africa, &#8220;tea&#8221; means the same thing as far as I know &#8230; pretty much any infusion.  Probably elsewhere as well.  </p>
<p>Most speakers of English around the world, and other languages use the word &#8220;chai&#8221; for &#8220;tea.&#8221;  As far as I know, only those sold on &#8220;chai masala&#8221; as &#8220;chai&#8221; in the use think &#8220;chai&#8221; means something other that &#8220;tea, usually tea-tea.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is perfectly fine for Americans to adopt the word everyone else uses for a species specific but general kind of beverage to mean a certain mixture (which would be like, say, Australians thinking that &#8220;coffee&#8221; was coffee with cream and sugar and a sprinkle of nutmeg), and a different word  for the same exact drink for anything from  the same species specific infusion to cow shit in water that you spread on your lawn.  It&#8217;s just that some of those usages are going to sound funny for people with different (and equally valid) linguistic experiences. Like those who speak English but are either not American or who have lived and/or traveled in other countries a lot.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: DuWayne		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516730</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DuWayne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 12:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516730</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;...of &quot;peppermint tea&quot;, since both of you know exactly what is meant.&lt;/i&gt;

That is not always as certain as you might think.  After all, when I make peppermint tea, I am brewing a cup of sencha and mint.  And I have friends made in Portland from my occasional visits to a very good teahouse (while I could still afford to go) who are just as, if not considerably more neurotic about their tea as I am.  Here in MI, I have only one really hard core hot beverage friend (technically, I think I could also include his partner, but she was converted by him and is not quite as hardcore).  But if any of us would mention mint tea without mentioning what type of tea was going with it, we would not know what the other person meant.  I am also occasionally surprised people, who actually mean mint &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; tea...

Sharon - 

I have to agree with you to a certain degree.  I accept without hesitation that language is ever evolving and that evolution includes adopting words that are actually part of another language - even when it means something different after adoption, which of course it frequently does.  Nor are U.S. Americans the only folks who do this.

The caveat that I have to put to that, is that in doing so, one must accept that there are people who find this practice offensive and/or are very sensitive to what this action represents.  It is really easy for westerners to forget that large swaths of the world (including the U.S.) are/were subject to centuries - if not millenia - of colonial rule.  Many of these places have a long history of being the folks who bore the brunt of proxy wars, that allowed (mostly) European countries to keep their wars from actually effecting the people at home.

And for many of these countries, if they are no longer under colonial rule, the most recent colonial rule is still a part of living memory.

Note - I am &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; mentioning this because I think it is essential to stop using all of the various words that fit into this context.  In many cases there are a very few people who actually care and opposing them are other members of the same culture who are either ambivalent or see it as a positive sign of the acceptance of aspects of their culture into the larger cultural context of the west.  There are certainly cases/contexts where I think it is entirely reasonable not to use particular words.  

But I mention this more because I think this is something that people would do well to think about, rather than out of an overt desire to change &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; particular behavior.  I think it provides a better context for understanding why certain words used in certain contexts are deeply and nearly universally - for members of the related culture - offensive and rightfully so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8230;of &#8220;peppermint tea&#8221;, since both of you know exactly what is meant.</i></p>
<p>That is not always as certain as you might think.  After all, when I make peppermint tea, I am brewing a cup of sencha and mint.  And I have friends made in Portland from my occasional visits to a very good teahouse (while I could still afford to go) who are just as, if not considerably more neurotic about their tea as I am.  Here in MI, I have only one really hard core hot beverage friend (technically, I think I could also include his partner, but she was converted by him and is not quite as hardcore).  But if any of us would mention mint tea without mentioning what type of tea was going with it, we would not know what the other person meant.  I am also occasionally surprised people, who actually mean mint <i>and</i> tea&#8230;</p>
<p>Sharon &#8211; </p>
<p>I have to agree with you to a certain degree.  I accept without hesitation that language is ever evolving and that evolution includes adopting words that are actually part of another language &#8211; even when it means something different after adoption, which of course it frequently does.  Nor are U.S. Americans the only folks who do this.</p>
<p>The caveat that I have to put to that, is that in doing so, one must accept that there are people who find this practice offensive and/or are very sensitive to what this action represents.  It is really easy for westerners to forget that large swaths of the world (including the U.S.) are/were subject to centuries &#8211; if not millenia &#8211; of colonial rule.  Many of these places have a long history of being the folks who bore the brunt of proxy wars, that allowed (mostly) European countries to keep their wars from actually effecting the people at home.</p>
<p>And for many of these countries, if they are no longer under colonial rule, the most recent colonial rule is still a part of living memory.</p>
<p>Note &#8211; I am <i>not</i> mentioning this because I think it is essential to stop using all of the various words that fit into this context.  In many cases there are a very few people who actually care and opposing them are other members of the same culture who are either ambivalent or see it as a positive sign of the acceptance of aspects of their culture into the larger cultural context of the west.  There are certainly cases/contexts where I think it is entirely reasonable not to use particular words.  </p>
<p>But I mention this more because I think this is something that people would do well to think about, rather than out of an overt desire to change <i>this</i> particular behavior.  I think it provides a better context for understanding why certain words used in certain contexts are deeply and nearly universally &#8211; for members of the related culture &#8211; offensive and rightfully so.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Monado		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516729</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Monado]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516729</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In Japan, I believe that tea is o-chai, or &quot;honorable tea.&quot; Although that usage may be obsolete.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Japan, I believe that tea is o-chai, or &#8220;honorable tea.&#8221; Although that usage may be obsolete.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516728</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516728</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@DuWayne: Heh - I thought it might be that bad. I extracted the scents from a number of flowers (and orange peels) many years ago and just a few drops of any of the extracts would make me feel sick (though it smelled great from a distance - a great great distance). I also went through a chocolate factory once and the smell was barely tolerable.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DuWayne: Heh &#8211; I thought it might be that bad. I extracted the scents from a number of flowers (and orange peels) many years ago and just a few drops of any of the extracts would make me feel sick (though it smelled great from a distance &#8211; a great great distance). I also went through a chocolate factory once and the smell was barely tolerable.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516727</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516727</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Meh. I never was a fan of rooibos.  Perhaps &quot;chai&quot; comes from one of the Chinese words for tea which sounds like &quot;cha&quot;?  I never could figure out what this &quot;chai&quot; thing in pretentious cafes was all about - it seemed to be a different thing in every cafe.  As for &quot;tea&quot; - it seems to be any plant material infused with hot water with the sole exception of coffee.  The &quot;tea&quot; shrubs (species of camellias) are a number of plants whose leaves are used for the various &quot;black teas&quot;.  The Chinese also have a variety of floral teas (like daisy), &quot;green&quot; teas which may or may not be made of tea (such as the jasmine tea which uses the young jasmine leaves), and all sorts of concoctions which use the barks, leaves, and even fruits of plants. And in the case of &quot;sandalwood tea&quot; I&#039;m convinced it&#039;s sawdust from traditional shoelasts.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meh. I never was a fan of rooibos.  Perhaps &#8220;chai&#8221; comes from one of the Chinese words for tea which sounds like &#8220;cha&#8221;?  I never could figure out what this &#8220;chai&#8221; thing in pretentious cafes was all about &#8211; it seemed to be a different thing in every cafe.  As for &#8220;tea&#8221; &#8211; it seems to be any plant material infused with hot water with the sole exception of coffee.  The &#8220;tea&#8221; shrubs (species of camellias) are a number of plants whose leaves are used for the various &#8220;black teas&#8221;.  The Chinese also have a variety of floral teas (like daisy), &#8220;green&#8221; teas which may or may not be made of tea (such as the jasmine tea which uses the young jasmine leaves), and all sorts of concoctions which use the barks, leaves, and even fruits of plants. And in the case of &#8220;sandalwood tea&#8221; I&#8217;m convinced it&#8217;s sawdust from traditional shoelasts.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Morejello		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516726</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Morejello]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516726</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve had rooibos, and I didn&#039;t care for it much. I thought that was interesting, because I generally enjoy Tea, flavored teas, and other random herbal infusions.
Perhaps it was the quality of the Rooibos that I got. After all, I live in Idaho. Not exactly a mecca of cultural interchange.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had rooibos, and I didn&#8217;t care for it much. I thought that was interesting, because I generally enjoy Tea, flavored teas, and other random herbal infusions.<br />
Perhaps it was the quality of the Rooibos that I got. After all, I live in Idaho. Not exactly a mecca of cultural interchange.</p>
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		<title>
		By: James		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516725</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516725</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I always have crumpets with my sinesis.  I&#039;ll  have to remember to order  a cup of sinesis next time I am at Starbucks and desire tea. I wouldn&#039;t give you the time of day for all the sinesis in China!  

No, this is not working for me.  

Tea is tea, and all those other hot liquids are too &#039;cept hot chocolate and java.  And, I sort of thought this blog post was about something else with the chai part being more of a loss leader. But I&#039;ve not had my daily cup of sinesis, so it is possible that I am not thinking straight.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always have crumpets with my sinesis.  I&#8217;ll  have to remember to order  a cup of sinesis next time I am at Starbucks and desire tea. I wouldn&#8217;t give you the time of day for all the sinesis in China!  </p>
<p>No, this is not working for me.  </p>
<p>Tea is tea, and all those other hot liquids are too &#8216;cept hot chocolate and java.  And, I sort of thought this blog post was about something else with the chai part being more of a loss leader. But I&#8217;ve not had my daily cup of sinesis, so it is possible that I am not thinking straight.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516724</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/04/02/social-justice-in-the-tea-chai/#comment-516724</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[penn: Take it down a notch, she has a point.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>penn: Take it down a notch, she has a point.  </p>
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