Comments on: US College Degrees

By: MSgt

MSgt — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:54:53 +0000

Well, Thank you Greg Laden for such a generous interpretation of my admittedly half-cocked post.

Most of what you and the other commenters wrote after mine makes me want to tone down my rhetoric a notch.

I’ll refer to this song by Alanis Morissette as my mea culpa, (emphasis added):

YOU LEARN
I recommend getting your heart trampled on to anyone
I recommend walking around naked in your living room
Swallow it down (what a jagged little pill)
It feels so good (swimming in your stomach)
Wait until the dust settles

You live you learn
You love you learn
You cry you learn
You lose you learn
You bleed you learn
You scream you learn

I recommend biting off more then you can chew to anyone
I certainly do
I recommend sticking your foot in your mouth at any time
Feel free
Throw it down (the caution blocks you from the wind)
Hold it up (to the rays)
You wait and see when the smoke clears

You live you learn
You love you learn
You cry you learn
You lose you learn
You bleed you learn
You scream you learn

Wear it out (the way a three-year-old would do)
Melt it down (you’re gonna have to eventually anyway)
The fire trucks are coming up around the bend

You live you learn
You love you learn
You cry you learn
You lose you learn
You bleed you learn
You scream you learn

You grieve you learn
You choke you learn
You laugh you learn
You choose you learn
You pray you learn
You ask you learn
You live you learn

By: recep ivedik 3 izle

recep ivedik 3 izle — Sun, 10 Jan 2010 07:34:19 +0000

thank you very much for sharings…i really enjoy all of these posts…

By: Jim Thomerson

Jim Thomerson — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:14:12 +0000

Come to think of it, the institution where I received my BS was integrated during my senior year, my MS institution during the second year I was there, and my PhD institution during the four years I was there. So I guess us old fogies lived in a different time than many 20 year-olds.

Is it important that the majority of bachelors degrees, since about 1982, have been awarded to females?

By: MadScientist

MadScientist — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 17:12:52 +0000

So what was the point again? I think if folks want to go to college they should have the opportunity; I think it’s becoming more difficult (certainly more difficult than in my generation) since college kids these days start out with the sort of debt that I would have if I bought a house. However, I never imagined any necessity for a majority of the population to go to college; if anything I’ve whined a lot over the decades over the decline of the technical and trade schools. In an ideal world people will do things that interest them, take some pride in their work, and be able to make a living off it too.

By: becca

becca — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:03:12 +0000

Greg- for what it’s worth, one thing I *did* learn at the college level (albeit mostly at the community college level) was how to *demonstrate my analytical thinking in writing*. Which is, technically, a discrete skill from thinking. I could always express it orally fairly reasonably (which is technically also a discrete skill from thinking, but at some point you have to ask: If a thought falls in a forest does anybody hear it?). So I’m not shocked that a liberal arts education, particularly if it emphasizes writing, resulted in demonstrably improved analytical writing.

To be clear- my cynicism is not skepticism that any program could teach a large majority of college students to think analytically. What I doubt is that the system currently in place is doing anybody nearly as much good as we’d like it to. Also relevant, it is true that many students come into university with the bulk of the thinking tools (they may just not be used to *demonstrating* their use of them; Stephanie’s perspective suggests some of that).
Expanding college access without changing the system is a whole lot better than nothing (and possibly highly desirable for other reasons), but it’s not as good as also using data-driven methods to evaluate which aspects of what is lumped under a ‘liberal arts education’ are actually doing the most good.

By: daedalus2u

daedalus2u — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 15:15:29 +0000

I just noticed that you didn’t have a category for those who have their degree from Google University.

By: lylebot

lylebot — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:49:52 +0000

I’m sure you are correct. I may have some residual cynicism from coasting through college with Bs without really doing much—looking back, I feel like it took me until graduate school to really learn how to think—and I wonder if that might explain someone like Bryan Pesta.

I also think I was influenced by going to a very diverse urban high school. I remember being sort of stunned my freshman year to hear my floormates talk about how diverse the college was. I think there was one black guy and one Jewish guy out of over 20 guys on the floor—the rest were white Christians, mostly from rural or suburban towns. I’m sure it was more diverse than their high schools, but it was hardly diverse.

By: Stephanie Z

Stephanie Z — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:08:44 +0000

I think, for me, college was particularly important in that it was the first environment I’d been in that consistently rewarded deeper critical interaction with the material. I had plenty of classes in junior high and high school that were very good at engaging interest in the material and making learning interesting (as well as some that weren’t), but college was the first place where people’s eyes really lit up at hard, tangential questions and weird connections. I did almost no rote memorization because of the ways I was encouraged to interact with the material.

I had a number of skills before I got to college, but college made me want to use them consistently, publicly and in an organized way to get more information out of the information I had.

By: Greg Laden

Greg Laden — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 12:50:53 +0000

lylebot: I’m sure you are correct for some (but not all) contexts, but I just want to restate that exposure to diversity was not my intention.

What I’m talking about is going through the process of applying theory, understanding methods, wrestling with the vagaries and limitations of data, learning the process of thoughtful critique, in the context of quest for knowledge and critical thinking in a challenging environment. As one randomly wanders through life one may or may not go though the transformations one sees when one is exposed to these challenges. A good system of higher ed provides this environment and assures that most students have the best possible chance to make these transformations. A fair system of higher ed makes it possible for a much larger percentage of the population than we currently see to go through this process.

By: lylebot

lylebot — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 12:45:24 +0000

Having a bachelor’s degree may have an opposite effect, which is that if you go to college and you’re surrounded by white people, you may end up concluding that white people are “smarter”. If you wrongly think that almost everyone goes to college, or that higher education is a good measure of intelligence*, then you’re not going to realize that your conclusion is based on extremely poor evidence.

(* My point here is: Higher education generally implies some above-average intelligence. Lack of higher education does not imply anything about intelligence.)