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	<title>
	Comments on: Nyamulagira Volcano and Human Evolution	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511188</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511188</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;Some chimps use digging sticks to dig up tubers during the rainy season; &lt;/em&gt;  Which chimps? Are you referring to the chimps at Tai?  That may actually be one of those behaviors that has come and gone rather than that is required for survival and known to have persistence.

There is also a group of chimps that digs for water.  But that is a whole other story and they are not really digging for water, IMO, though I&#039;m not sure if the researchers and I agree on that interpretation.  


&lt;em&gt;Technically a &quot;rainforest&quot; which has a long dry season is a monsoon forest, a true rainforest produces its own rain throughout the year, reducing but not stopping during the dry season.&lt;/em&gt;

Not according to the classification systems of which I&#039;m aware.  However, it is worth noting that if you take the minimum required annual rainfall to be a rain forest and apply it to Africa, there is only one tiny itty bitty rain forest in West Africa and not one bit elsewhere.  So, we Africanists tend to ignore that and refer to the parts with the closed canopy and all the rain as rain forests.  The problem is that when the classifications were worked out the data from Africa was rare and that which existed was not really used.  So there is a Brazilain/Borneo standard, if you will.

Yes, the Wranngham et al paper you cite is one of several extensions of the work that Wrangham and I did earlier.   

&lt;em&gt;Interesting that the volcanic soil there is similar to coral atoll soils in that both drain rainwater immediately, so a long dry season is difficult.&lt;/em&gt;

Yes indeed, very similar!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Some chimps use digging sticks to dig up tubers during the rainy season; </em>  Which chimps? Are you referring to the chimps at Tai?  That may actually be one of those behaviors that has come and gone rather than that is required for survival and known to have persistence.</p>
<p>There is also a group of chimps that digs for water.  But that is a whole other story and they are not really digging for water, IMO, though I&#8217;m not sure if the researchers and I agree on that interpretation.  </p>
<p><em>Technically a &#8220;rainforest&#8221; which has a long dry season is a monsoon forest, a true rainforest produces its own rain throughout the year, reducing but not stopping during the dry season.</em></p>
<p>Not according to the classification systems of which I&#8217;m aware.  However, it is worth noting that if you take the minimum required annual rainfall to be a rain forest and apply it to Africa, there is only one tiny itty bitty rain forest in West Africa and not one bit elsewhere.  So, we Africanists tend to ignore that and refer to the parts with the closed canopy and all the rain as rain forests.  The problem is that when the classifications were worked out the data from Africa was rare and that which existed was not really used.  So there is a Brazilain/Borneo standard, if you will.</p>
<p>Yes, the Wranngham et al paper you cite is one of several extensions of the work that Wrangham and I did earlier.   </p>
<p><em>Interesting that the volcanic soil there is similar to coral atoll soils in that both drain rainwater immediately, so a long dry season is difficult.</em></p>
<p>Yes indeed, very similar!</p>
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		<title>
		By: DD		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511187</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 19:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511187</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Some chimps use digging sticks to dig up tubers during the &lt;b&gt;rainy&lt;/b&gt; season; during the dry season these tubers become increasingly poisonous from alkaloids IIRC.

Interesting that the volcanic soil there is similar to coral atoll soils in that both drain rainwater immediately, so a long dry season is difficult.  Technically a &quot;rainforest&quot; which has a long dry season is a monsoon forest, a true rainforest produces its own rain throughout the year, reducing but not stopping during the dry season.

Shallow-water habitats as sources of fallback foods for hominins
R Wrangham, D Cheney, R Seyfarth &amp; E Sarmiento 2009 AJPA 140:630-642

&quot;Underground/underwater Storage Organs (rhyzomes) consumed by hominins could have included both underwater and underground storage
organs, ie, from both aquatic and terrestrial habitats.&quot; ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some chimps use digging sticks to dig up tubers during the <b>rainy</b> season; during the dry season these tubers become increasingly poisonous from alkaloids IIRC.</p>
<p>Interesting that the volcanic soil there is similar to coral atoll soils in that both drain rainwater immediately, so a long dry season is difficult.  Technically a &#8220;rainforest&#8221; which has a long dry season is a monsoon forest, a true rainforest produces its own rain throughout the year, reducing but not stopping during the dry season.</p>
<p>Shallow-water habitats as sources of fallback foods for hominins<br />
R Wrangham, D Cheney, R Seyfarth &#038; E Sarmiento 2009 AJPA 140:630-642</p>
<p>&#8220;Underground/underwater Storage Organs (rhyzomes) consumed by hominins could have included both underwater and underground storage<br />
organs, ie, from both aquatic and terrestrial habitats.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>
		By: Nathan Myers		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511186</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Myers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511186</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;A view of human evolution as a series of bottlenecks each conditioned on a seminal invention starts to resemble your typical cheap TV drama.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hominid Lost. Then Found. Then Lost Again. Then Found.
It could be better than a lot of what is on TV now. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

So diplomatic.  I would have said &quot;couldn&#039;t be worse&quot;.

But there are people who would insist that the appeal of this sort of presentation amounts to a racial memory: everyone alive today is descended from a long series of subpopulations selected for interest in how the elders survived adversity.  Tragically, such interest is equally satisfied by falsehoods; hence, religion.  And TV.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<blockquote><p>A view of human evolution as a series of bottlenecks each conditioned on a seminal invention starts to resemble your typical cheap TV drama.</p></blockquote>
<p>Hominid Lost. Then Found. Then Lost Again. Then Found.<br />
It could be better than a lot of what is on TV now. </p></blockquote>
<p>So diplomatic.  I would have said &#8220;couldn&#8217;t be worse&#8221;.</p>
<p>But there are people who would insist that the appeal of this sort of presentation amounts to a racial memory: everyone alive today is descended from a long series of subpopulations selected for interest in how the elders survived adversity.  Tragically, such interest is equally satisfied by falsehoods; hence, religion.  And TV.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511185</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511185</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Peter:  Yes, indeed!  It is a questionable practice if you have a lot of poachers.

On the other hand, chimps can learn the difference between poachers/hunters and tourists.  In this particular region, habituating the gorillas to tourists changed the local economy and saved the gorillas.  Temporarily.  

It is no doubt not an easy decision to make. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter:  Yes, indeed!  It is a questionable practice if you have a lot of poachers.</p>
<p>On the other hand, chimps can learn the difference between poachers/hunters and tourists.  In this particular region, habituating the gorillas to tourists changed the local economy and saved the gorillas.  Temporarily.  </p>
<p>It is no doubt not an easy decision to make. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Peter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511184</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511184</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The concept of habituating chimps for tourists strikes me as both very funny and a very bad idea.  Wouldn&#039;t this leave them more vulnerable to human depredation? ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The concept of habituating chimps for tourists strikes me as both very funny and a very bad idea.  Wouldn&#8217;t this leave them more vulnerable to human depredation? </p>
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		<title>
		By: Crabtree		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511183</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Crabtree]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511183</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Cool.  Interesting idea.  It is fun to get a look at how the science works behind the scene.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool.  Interesting idea.  It is fun to get a look at how the science works behind the scene.  </p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511182</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511182</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Hominid Lost.  Then Found.  Then Lost Again.  Then Found.   

It could be better than a lot of what is on TV now. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hominid Lost.  Then Found.  Then Lost Again.  Then Found.   </p>
<p>It could be better than a lot of what is on TV now. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
		
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		<title>
		By: Nathan Myers		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511181</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nathan Myers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 19:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511181</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You could call this the &quot;Mole Ape Hypothesis&quot;.  People would give TED talks about it.  You might even get on Oprah. (Oops, too late!)

Curtis Marean was insisting recently that a bottlenecked human population of ~150Kya? survived because they, uniquely, had learned to exploit shellfish.  Each bottleneck would have its own success story, because all their descendants would know the secret, but only one group among them survives the next one.  Maybe tubers get a bottleneck of their own.

A view of human evolution as a series of bottlenecks each conditioned on a seminal invention starts to resemble your typical cheap TV drama.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could call this the &#8220;Mole Ape Hypothesis&#8221;.  People would give TED talks about it.  You might even get on Oprah. (Oops, too late!)</p>
<p>Curtis Marean was insisting recently that a bottlenecked human population of ~150Kya? survived because they, uniquely, had learned to exploit shellfish.  Each bottleneck would have its own success story, because all their descendants would know the secret, but only one group among them survives the next one.  Maybe tubers get a bottleneck of their own.</p>
<p>A view of human evolution as a series of bottlenecks each conditioned on a seminal invention starts to resemble your typical cheap TV drama.</p>
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		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511180</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 17:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511180</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Your paper is very interesting, particularly the difference between food abundance in rainforest vs savanna.  The relative deficiency of edible roots in the rain forest vs the savanna might explain why the people that inhabit rainforest (the pygmies) tend to have short stature, it could be an adaptation for reduced food supply (as also occurs on islands) rather than an adaption for early reproduction.  Since non-pygmies in the west go through menarche at less than age 12, earlier menarche would seem to be easier to evolve than differential regulation of growth.  

In looking at wikipedia, there are indigenous pygmies in Africa, Asia, South America and in Australia, and they all seem to live in rainforest.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your paper is very interesting, particularly the difference between food abundance in rainforest vs savanna.  The relative deficiency of edible roots in the rain forest vs the savanna might explain why the people that inhabit rainforest (the pygmies) tend to have short stature, it could be an adaptation for reduced food supply (as also occurs on islands) rather than an adaption for early reproduction.  Since non-pygmies in the west go through menarche at less than age 12, earlier menarche would seem to be easier to evolve than differential regulation of growth.  </p>
<p>In looking at wikipedia, there are indigenous pygmies in Africa, Asia, South America and in Australia, and they all seem to live in rainforest.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511179</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 16:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2010/01/04/nyamulagira-volcano-and-human/#comment-511179</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[That is exactly what I would expect a frog to say. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is exactly what I would expect a frog to say. </p>
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