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	Comments on: The Nature of the Racist Conversation	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/</link>
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		<title>
		By: tom		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549839</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549839</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[or he&#039;s proud to be a German!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or he&#8217;s proud to be a German!</p>
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		<title>
		By: micheleinmichigan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549838</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549838</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[whoops sorry for the trigger happy post button twitch. 

Also the word &quot;artistic&quot; was poorly chose, should have been more pseudo-creative or some such.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>whoops sorry for the trigger happy post button twitch. </p>
<p>Also the word &#8220;artistic&#8221; was poorly chose, should have been more pseudo-creative or some such.</p>
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		<title>
		By: micheleinmichigan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549837</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549837</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ahhh, I get it now. :) 

That was the movie with Tim Robbins. Brilliant film.

I have to say, there&#039;s not a lot of artistic pitching in a Pediatric Plastic Surgery appointment. It&#039;s more like a meeting with a building contractor. &quot;Well, we can close this bit here and take a little bit from there and move it over there and then it might not be so drafty in here&quot; (just depends whether you&#039;re talking about a living room or nasal passage). They just want the new structure to fit in with the existing landscape. :)

But it&#039;s funny to think of. Particularly since my son was saying the other day that he wanted a nose like my husband&#039;s very italian one.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh, I get it now. 🙂 </p>
<p>That was the movie with Tim Robbins. Brilliant film.</p>
<p>I have to say, there&#8217;s not a lot of artistic pitching in a Pediatric Plastic Surgery appointment. It&#8217;s more like a meeting with a building contractor. &#8220;Well, we can close this bit here and take a little bit from there and move it over there and then it might not be so drafty in here&#8221; (just depends whether you&#8217;re talking about a living room or nasal passage). They just want the new structure to fit in with the existing landscape. 🙂</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s funny to think of. Particularly since my son was saying the other day that he wanted a nose like my husband&#8217;s very italian one.</p>
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		<title>
		By: micheleinmichigan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549836</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549836</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ahhh, I get it now. :) 

That was the movie with Tim Robbins. Brilliant film. Makes much more sense than John Cleese.

I have to say, there&#039;s not a lot of pitching in a Pediatric Plastic Surgery appointment. But it&#039;s funny to think of.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahhh, I get it now. 🙂 </p>
<p>That was the movie with Tim Robbins. Brilliant film. Makes much more sense than John Cleese.</p>
<p>I have to say, there&#8217;s not a lot of pitching in a Pediatric Plastic Surgery appointment. But it&#8217;s funny to think of.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549835</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549835</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Producer (Altman):  A great film.  

The reference is to writers pitching their screenplays to producers who really don&#039;t like writers, and lower level producers pitching their ideas to each other and higher level producers.

&quot;This film will be an epic love story with an animal lover&#039;s twist ... like King Kong meets Sleepless in Seattle&quot;

or

&quot;We need something with action but meaning... kinda like Lethal Weapon meets Ghandi....&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Producer (Altman):  A great film.  </p>
<p>The reference is to writers pitching their screenplays to producers who really don&#8217;t like writers, and lower level producers pitching their ideas to each other and higher level producers.</p>
<p>&#8220;This film will be an epic love story with an animal lover&#8217;s twist &#8230; like King Kong meets Sleepless in Seattle&#8221;</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>&#8220;We need something with action but meaning&#8230; kinda like Lethal Weapon meets Ghandi&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: micheleinmichigan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549834</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549834</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sadly, I don&#039;t know Robert Altman&#039;s work enough to visualize the scene. My imagination keeps playing John Cleese instead. 

Thanks for the kind words regarding my son&#039;s surgery and thanks for an interesting discussion.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, I don&#8217;t know Robert Altman&#8217;s work enough to visualize the scene. My imagination keeps playing John Cleese instead. </p>
<p>Thanks for the kind words regarding my son&#8217;s surgery and thanks for an interesting discussion.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan:  All very interesting thoughts about race.  Yes, I insist on calling all race-based presumptions &quot;racist&quot; and allow for the possibility that there is good &quot;racism&quot; even though there isn&#039;t any, over the medium to long term, as you suggest.  

Regarding the nose.   I hope all the surgery goes well.  But I have to admit that what came to my mind is a hypothetical scene from a Robert Altman film with people standing around discussing nose shape in relation to ethnicity.

Looking at the book of example noses:

&quot;Here, look at this one. It&#039; sort of Highland Pakastan meets Tibetan Monk...&quot;

&quot;No, I was thinking more of a Hmong with a touch of Cantonese...&quot;  

and so on.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>micheleinmichigan:  All very interesting thoughts about race.  Yes, I insist on calling all race-based presumptions &#8220;racist&#8221; and allow for the possibility that there is good &#8220;racism&#8221; even though there isn&#8217;t any, over the medium to long term, as you suggest.  </p>
<p>Regarding the nose.   I hope all the surgery goes well.  But I have to admit that what came to my mind is a hypothetical scene from a Robert Altman film with people standing around discussing nose shape in relation to ethnicity.</p>
<p>Looking at the book of example noses:</p>
<p>&#8220;Here, look at this one. It&#8217; sort of Highland Pakastan meets Tibetan Monk&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;No, I was thinking more of a Hmong with a touch of Cantonese&#8230;&#8221;  </p>
<p>and so on.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: micheleinmichigan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549832</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549832</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[(Greg, I know this is not directly relevant to your comments).

Just one more &quot;what is race good for&quot; thought. Because of my son&#039;s cleft lip and palate we regularly see a plastic surgeon. One visit we were discussing the shape of his nose and the usefulness/advisability of a second corrective surgery to that area. The PS was very well versed in facial ethnic differences and his examination and thoughts were based on how my son&#039;s nose varied from the norm of other Asian noses (amount of protuberance, orientation of nostils, width, etc) While it might make people uncomfortable talking about typical ethnic features, these observations are essential and much appreciated in the realm of plastic surgery.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Greg, I know this is not directly relevant to your comments).</p>
<p>Just one more &#8220;what is race good for&#8221; thought. Because of my son&#8217;s cleft lip and palate we regularly see a plastic surgeon. One visit we were discussing the shape of his nose and the usefulness/advisability of a second corrective surgery to that area. The PS was very well versed in facial ethnic differences and his examination and thoughts were based on how my son&#8217;s nose varied from the norm of other Asian noses (amount of protuberance, orientation of nostils, width, etc) While it might make people uncomfortable talking about typical ethnic features, these observations are essential and much appreciated in the realm of plastic surgery.</p>
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		<title>
		By: micheleinmichigan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549831</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[micheleinmichigan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 08:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549831</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, stealing someone&#039;s radio really has very little to do with race. Just like stealing a computer or tv it&#039;s all about the free market. You can&#039;t give away used CDs...

I think quite a bit about race and culture. My daughter and son are both international adopted from Kazakhstan and China (respectively). Teaching them as much as we can about their culture and doing what we can to insulate them from and vaccinate them against rascist assumption is part of our job. Like many things in parenting, you just never know if you&#039;re doing it right. 

Some people seem to think that if they have a positive view of a race then that&#039;s okay. (It&#039;s okay to assume that Asians are good at math). Unfortunately, I saw some of the more rascist assumptions from Early Intervention personal when I was seeking help for my son&#039;s speech issues due to a craniofacial birth difference. I had one literacy advocate who told me, &#039;sure your son is smart and into things like legos and machines because he&#039;s Chinese, my husband is Chinese and they are all like that.&#039; We did not see her again.

In the area we&#039;ve moved to, prejudice against Middle Eastern, Indian and Hispanic folks seems to be quite common (definitely more common than I thought when we moved here). The people of my daughter&#039;s ethnicity, Kazakh,are almost entirely Islamic. I do not want her getting the negative message about Islam that is so prevalent today. I struggle to find a persuasive way to communicate to some neighbors, school personal, etc what I was taught as a child by my mom. You can&#039;t tell a book by it&#039;s cover. You need to take the time to get to know a person, before you, well, know them. Most of these people I&#039;m talking about are not mean people or nazis, but they are fearful and aren&#039;t thinking about how their unrealistic fearfulness negatively effects the world around them.

Some people think that the answer is to just call people racist or reprimand them. When you are talking about the media or having public discussions that might help. In private one on one conversaions, it might make you feel you have &quot;done something&quot; but, I don&#039;t know that it actually changes any minds.

In regards to whether race or ethnicity labels are useful when it comes to medicine. I can see some good or bad. If a doctor ignores symptoms because the patient is the &quot;wrong race&quot; that is a problem. But, with my children it is helpful to know for instance that Asian skin tends to scar more (or show scars). It is helpful to know about Mongolian spots, which are common in Asian infants/toddlers. It&#039;s helpful to know about more common dietary issues (lactose intolerance, alcohol flush, etc). They are not the be all and end all, but sometimes a little bit helps.

Quite a ramble, I know.


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, stealing someone&#8217;s radio really has very little to do with race. Just like stealing a computer or tv it&#8217;s all about the free market. You can&#8217;t give away used CDs&#8230;</p>
<p>I think quite a bit about race and culture. My daughter and son are both international adopted from Kazakhstan and China (respectively). Teaching them as much as we can about their culture and doing what we can to insulate them from and vaccinate them against rascist assumption is part of our job. Like many things in parenting, you just never know if you&#8217;re doing it right. </p>
<p>Some people seem to think that if they have a positive view of a race then that&#8217;s okay. (It&#8217;s okay to assume that Asians are good at math). Unfortunately, I saw some of the more rascist assumptions from Early Intervention personal when I was seeking help for my son&#8217;s speech issues due to a craniofacial birth difference. I had one literacy advocate who told me, &#8216;sure your son is smart and into things like legos and machines because he&#8217;s Chinese, my husband is Chinese and they are all like that.&#8217; We did not see her again.</p>
<p>In the area we&#8217;ve moved to, prejudice against Middle Eastern, Indian and Hispanic folks seems to be quite common (definitely more common than I thought when we moved here). The people of my daughter&#8217;s ethnicity, Kazakh,are almost entirely Islamic. I do not want her getting the negative message about Islam that is so prevalent today. I struggle to find a persuasive way to communicate to some neighbors, school personal, etc what I was taught as a child by my mom. You can&#8217;t tell a book by it&#8217;s cover. You need to take the time to get to know a person, before you, well, know them. Most of these people I&#8217;m talking about are not mean people or nazis, but they are fearful and aren&#8217;t thinking about how their unrealistic fearfulness negatively effects the world around them.</p>
<p>Some people think that the answer is to just call people racist or reprimand them. When you are talking about the media or having public discussions that might help. In private one on one conversaions, it might make you feel you have &#8220;done something&#8221; but, I don&#8217;t know that it actually changes any minds.</p>
<p>In regards to whether race or ethnicity labels are useful when it comes to medicine. I can see some good or bad. If a doctor ignores symptoms because the patient is the &#8220;wrong race&#8221; that is a problem. But, with my children it is helpful to know for instance that Asian skin tends to scar more (or show scars). It is helpful to know about Mongolian spots, which are common in Asian infants/toddlers. It&#8217;s helpful to know about more common dietary issues (lactose intolerance, alcohol flush, etc). They are not the be all and end all, but sometimes a little bit helps.</p>
<p>Quite a ramble, I know.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549830</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/30/the-nature-of-the-racist-conve-1/#comment-549830</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And does he have no knowledge of history at all? Does he not know where rock music originally came from?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And does he have no knowledge of history at all? Does he not know where rock music originally came from?</p>
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