I think this means god is an atheist, but since she doesn’t exist, we’ll never know for sure.

If anyone should apologize it should be Jerome Hayes for his display of piecey. He intentionally trots down in front of U.M.’s cheerleaders and it’s crowd and continues to mock them with his obnoxious and arrogant display of what a true Christian is suppose to be. And on top of that he refuses to shake Goldy’s hand. Is it not the Christian way to forgive even if one feels that they have been offended? How arrogant is that? What if one of U.M. players was to kneel down with Jerome Hayes in prayer? Would anyone find that offensive? How does anyone even know that perhaps Goldy themself was praying?

And as far as llewelly (#8) is concerned. What makes you think that God even gives a rats’ ass about some football game when he didn’t even give a rats’ ass about any of my prayers when I was a Christian. You know why? Because he DOESN’T EXIST! God is nothing more than a manifestation of ones’ PRIDE. If you don’t know this you must be an arrogant and ignorant dumb-ass.

If anyone should apologize it should be Jerome Hayes for his display of piecey. He intentionally trots down in front of U.M.’s cheerleaders and it’s crowd and continues to mock them with his obnoxious and arrogant display of what a true Christian is suppose to be. And on top of that he refuses to shake Goldy’s hand. Is it not the Christian way to forgive even if one feels that they have been offended? How arrogant is that? What if one of U.M. players was to kneel down with Jerome Hayes in prayer? Would anyone find that offensive? How does anyone even know that perhaps Goldy themself was praying?

And as far as llewelly (#8) is concerned. What makes you think that God even gives a rats’ ass about some football game when he didn’t even give a rats’ ass about any of my prayers when I was a Christian. You know why? Because he DOESN’T EXIST! God is nothing more than a manifestation of ones’ PRIDE. If you don’t know this you must be an arrogant and ignorant dumb-ass.

Speaking of infamous blasphemers, besides the Gopher, and PZ Myers, Willem Defoe also attended U Minn at Morris. Defoe portrayed Bozo in the controversial film, The Last Temptation of Bozo.

I know goldie. Well, I don’t know her really well, but I do know her well enough to know she’s a girl, and to know that she can’t see for shit. The girl part is not relevant here (I just find it interesting that everybody calls her a “him”) but the vision thing is very important here.

PZ’s thread and this one contain a lot of people who assume so much. Nobody knows what’s going through Haynes’s head. This might be a ritual that he does to clear his mind. It could be him thinking he can communicate mentally with someone dead–there’s a lot of players in football who come from difficult backgrounds, so this is quite possible. And he’s the least showy that he possibly can… he’s at the visiting side, after all, in the corner where only the first few rows can even see him.

Overall, this is just an awkward moment that really means nothing on any level.

H.H. – I actually do have a respect for irrationality. I respect it as a fundamental aspect of human behavior. Emotion isn’t rational at all, although reason can organize it. To try and declare yourself entirely reasonable is preposterous. You would cease to be human.

Yes, we can all try and be reasonable, and that is usually good. It is certainly always good when communicating with each other. But to try and limit human experience to purely rational behavior is a fool’s errand.

Let me go back to the football player. I think we can be safe in saying he is a Christian praying to God. But suppose that he wasn’t. Suppose he was an atheist who, in the course of a stressful game, took a moment to himself and began performing some focusing techniques – closing his eyes, muttering some motivational mantra, etc.

Would your reaction be any different? He wouldn’t be thinking about imaginary beings, but his behavior wouldn’t be all that different, both in its appearance and its likely effect on his mental state. As a former athlete myself I can relate to many times trying to be as irrational as possible – or maybe “arational” would be more to the point.

This empathetic picture I’m painting of the football player is where I am coming from when I describe the posts here as “bullying”. I realize the line I’m drawing isn’t very straight, and a better word would probably be more descriptive. But I’m not trying to score any points, just to get my point of view across.

To clarify what I meant by bullying (which is another irony since I’ve used it to describe the actions of a minority against an oppressive majority!): the victim in this case was doing nothing to directly harm anyone else. I understand that the mere presence of religion is considered harmful to many, and I tried to address my disagreement with that in my prior post.

If it indeed is harmful, then the “bullying” would be appropriate. Just as it would toward a racist, fascist, etc. But if not, then then I think the label is apt. If someone is doing something that isn’t harming anyone else, I think their right to do so ought to be respected.

I think it may come down to a principled disagreement. And that is a larger debate that we’ll all continue to have.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it! You too Mr. Felis!!! 😉

And so in this way I think it should be given respect. At the very least as a part of one’s cultural behavior that they should not be made to feel ashamed of having accepted.

We can recognize that religious behavior is cultural and acknowledge the psychological mechanisms which make it appealing. But we should not respect religion for those things, as those are the same qualities which make it so intellectual repugnant. Yes, people use religion as a psychological crutch and willingly accept absurdities which soothe their egos. Such irrationality is extremely troubling, and not less so because it is common. People should be ashamed that they have settled for pleasing falsehoods and primitive superstitions. If you wish for people to be more rational, you must at a minimum express the position that irrationality is undesirable. You can’t expect people to change if you tell them that faith and reliance on authority are perfectly respectable intellectual positions. I understand you not wanting to be part of a mindless angry mob, but I just don’t see that here. Your accusations of bullying are unfounded.

I admit I had always felt a need to hide my atheism. The history of oppression and social ostracism is real and powerful.

Yes, and your wariness to offend seems based upon that fear. But why would you wish that fear to restrict others with more courage than you?