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	Comments on: Keeping Obama&#8217;s Peace Prize in Perspective	</title>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548315</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 22:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548315</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Enjoy your carrot.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoy your carrot.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Alex		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548314</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alex]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548314</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Didn&#039;t President Obama just deploy 13,000 more troops to Afghanistan a few hours ago? Aren&#039;t troops still dying there? Has military spending decreased?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This would be relevant if Afghanistan was a war of aggression, but it was not. It is a just war. Even the UN agrees. Or was FDR wrong for fighting Japan after Pearl Harbor?

&lt;blockquote&gt;Has the Administration repealed the Patriot Act and FISA Amendment? In other words, are warrantless wiretaps of the American public a thing of the past?

Has the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act been repealed? Has the Commodity Futures Modernization Act been repealed? Has Glass Steagall been reenacted? Has NAFTA and GATT been renegotiated? Have lobbyists and donors left Washington? Has President Obama disavowed support of the Class Action Reform Act?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

None of those have any relevance to the cause of peace.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The reality that the Nobel Peace prize is given as a political sop based on the ideology of the presenters has never been more evident.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As Greg explained in his &quot;open letter&quot;, &lt;i&gt;&quot;The ultimate goal, and perhaps only noble goal, of politics is to find and support peace, within and between nations. Were you thinking there was some other objective, or that politics, ideally and in its most expansive form, was for something else?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Armenia and Turkey just signed an historic peace deal - who brokered that?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Um, the Obama Administration:

&lt;i&gt;The administration of President Barack Obama had been pressing the parties to reach agreement.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;The ceremony was attended by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, as well as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and the EU&#039;s High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, Javier Solana.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Mrs Clinton later said the US would build on the &quot;milestone&quot; that had been achieved, but admitted &quot;concerns on both sides&quot; had delayed the signing.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;A senior state department official told Associated Press that Mr Obama had called Mrs Clinton &quot;to congratulate her and the team&quot; on their role in the signing.&lt;/i&gt;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8299712.stm

(Besides, even if the deal had had nothing to do with the US, the deal was done long after the Nobel nominations deadline, so has very very little relevance over who the Nobel Peace Prize 2009 should&#039;ve gone to)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Didn&#8217;t President Obama just deploy 13,000 more troops to Afghanistan a few hours ago? Aren&#8217;t troops still dying there? Has military spending decreased?</p></blockquote>
<p>This would be relevant if Afghanistan was a war of aggression, but it was not. It is a just war. Even the UN agrees. Or was FDR wrong for fighting Japan after Pearl Harbor?</p>
<blockquote><p>Has the Administration repealed the Patriot Act and FISA Amendment? In other words, are warrantless wiretaps of the American public a thing of the past?</p>
<p>Has the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act been repealed? Has the Commodity Futures Modernization Act been repealed? Has Glass Steagall been reenacted? Has NAFTA and GATT been renegotiated? Have lobbyists and donors left Washington? Has President Obama disavowed support of the Class Action Reform Act?</p></blockquote>
<p>None of those have any relevance to the cause of peace.</p>
<blockquote><p>The reality that the Nobel Peace prize is given as a political sop based on the ideology of the presenters has never been more evident.</p></blockquote>
<p>As Greg explained in his &#8220;open letter&#8221;, <i>&#8220;The ultimate goal, and perhaps only noble goal, of politics is to find and support peace, within and between nations. Were you thinking there was some other objective, or that politics, ideally and in its most expansive form, was for something else?&#8221;</i></p>
<blockquote><p>Armenia and Turkey just signed an historic peace deal &#8211; who brokered that?</p></blockquote>
<p>Um, the Obama Administration:</p>
<p><i>The administration of President Barack Obama had been pressing the parties to reach agreement.</i></p>
<p><i>The ceremony was attended by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, as well as Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and the EU&#8217;s High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy, Javier Solana.</i></p>
<p><i>Mrs Clinton later said the US would build on the &#8220;milestone&#8221; that had been achieved, but admitted &#8220;concerns on both sides&#8221; had delayed the signing.</i></p>
<p><i>A senior state department official told Associated Press that Mr Obama had called Mrs Clinton &#8220;to congratulate her and the team&#8221; on their role in the signing.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8299712.stm" rel="nofollow ugc">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8299712.stm</a></p>
<p>(Besides, even if the deal had had nothing to do with the US, the deal was done long after the Nobel nominations deadline, so has very very little relevance over who the Nobel Peace Prize 2009 should&#8217;ve gone to)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diane G.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548313</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diane G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548313</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[BTW--Do watch the vid.  Even if you&#039;re cynical--especially if you&#039;re cynical--it might at least give you another view to think about...

I should know--I&#039;ve been called &quot;more cynical than it&#039;s healthy to be.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW&#8211;Do watch the vid.  Even if you&#8217;re cynical&#8211;especially if you&#8217;re cynical&#8211;it might at least give you another view to think about&#8230;</p>
<p>I should know&#8211;I&#8217;ve been called &#8220;more cynical than it&#8217;s healthy to be.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diane G.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548312</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diane G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548312</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Well, john, I share your disappointment &amp; downright cynicism with the lack of action so far.  I think that has a lot more to do with our Democratic Congressweenies than Obama...but it also does sound like he&#039;s listening more to his miltary advisors and less to his electoral mandate...

I think Michael Moore is right in that too many of us are dropping the ball, action-wise, and letting the loud-mouth right-wing idiots control the dialogue.  OTOH, as it seems that &quot;the American people,&quot; &amp; thus congress, are more swayed by scare rhetoric than reason, where does that leave us?  Cursed to adopt the same tactics?  Even when we do, it&#039;s hard to sound sincere...But it&#039;s probably past time for a large anti-war  protest in Washington.  (Where&#039;s the draft when you need it?)

Diane, veteran of the 60&#039;s...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, john, I share your disappointment &#038; downright cynicism with the lack of action so far.  I think that has a lot more to do with our Democratic Congressweenies than Obama&#8230;but it also does sound like he&#8217;s listening more to his miltary advisors and less to his electoral mandate&#8230;</p>
<p>I think Michael Moore is right in that too many of us are dropping the ball, action-wise, and letting the loud-mouth right-wing idiots control the dialogue.  OTOH, as it seems that &#8220;the American people,&#8221; &#038; thus congress, are more swayed by scare rhetoric than reason, where does that leave us?  Cursed to adopt the same tactics?  Even when we do, it&#8217;s hard to sound sincere&#8230;But it&#8217;s probably past time for a large anti-war  protest in Washington.  (Where&#8217;s the draft when you need it?)</p>
<p>Diane, veteran of the 60&#8217;s&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548311</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548311</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I didn&#039;t watch the video, just like I have no interest in hearing Hugo Chavez opine on President Obama&#039;s premature Nobel Peace Prize. From what I hear, he isn&#039;t all too pleased. I wouldn&#039;t even be surprised if Mr. Chavez has far more credibility within the Obama Administration than Ms. Maddow... for whatever that&#039;s worth.

I know we got distracted. But let&#039;s not forget, nothing has changed.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t watch the video, just like I have no interest in hearing Hugo Chavez opine on President Obama&#8217;s premature Nobel Peace Prize. From what I hear, he isn&#8217;t all too pleased. I wouldn&#8217;t even be surprised if Mr. Chavez has far more credibility within the Obama Administration than Ms. Maddow&#8230; for whatever that&#8217;s worth.</p>
<p>I know we got distracted. But let&#8217;s not forget, nothing has changed.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diane G.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548310</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diane G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548310</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Uh, john--did you watch the part of the program where it was mentioned that this award was determined as of last February?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh, john&#8211;did you watch the part of the program where it was mentioned that this award was determined as of last February?</p>
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		<title>
		By: john		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548309</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[john]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548309</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Didn&#039;t President Obama just deploy 13,000 more troops to Afghanistan a few hours ago? Aren&#039;t troops still dying there? Has military spending decreased? Has the Administration repealed the Patriot Act and FISA Amendment? In other words, are warrantless wiretaps of the American public a thing of the past? 

Has the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act been repealed? Has the Commodity Futures Modernization Act been repealed? Has Glass Steagall been reenacted? Has NAFTA and GATT been renegotiated? Have lobbyists and donors left Washington? Has President Obama disavowed support of the Class Action Reform Act?

But boy, how about that Nobel Peace Prize? The President can go pee-pee on the potty.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t President Obama just deploy 13,000 more troops to Afghanistan a few hours ago? Aren&#8217;t troops still dying there? Has military spending decreased? Has the Administration repealed the Patriot Act and FISA Amendment? In other words, are warrantless wiretaps of the American public a thing of the past? </p>
<p>Has the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act been repealed? Has the Commodity Futures Modernization Act been repealed? Has Glass Steagall been reenacted? Has NAFTA and GATT been renegotiated? Have lobbyists and donors left Washington? Has President Obama disavowed support of the Class Action Reform Act?</p>
<p>But boy, how about that Nobel Peace Prize? The President can go pee-pee on the potty.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Diane G.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548308</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Diane G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548308</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Damn it, just when I&#039;d effectively forgotten John Bolton...

Otherwise, thanks for the post--I fully concur with Maddow&#039;s sentiments.

IMO, the Nobel committee effectively gave the award to us (those of us who voted for Obama, anyway), in hopes of encouraging us to stay strong--and vigilant.  They must have known that, even with Obama&#039;s strong mandate, we&#039;d soon return to our egocentric divisiveness.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn it, just when I&#8217;d effectively forgotten John Bolton&#8230;</p>
<p>Otherwise, thanks for the post&#8211;I fully concur with Maddow&#8217;s sentiments.</p>
<p>IMO, the Nobel committee effectively gave the award to us (those of us who voted for Obama, anyway), in hopes of encouraging us to stay strong&#8211;and vigilant.  They must have known that, even with Obama&#8217;s strong mandate, we&#8217;d soon return to our egocentric divisiveness.</p>
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		By: Ayad Gharbawi		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548307</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ayad Gharbawi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548307</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To me, there are two sides to this story. It is certainly â??goodâ?? for America that Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize â?? it does reflect a sweeping change in the moral attitude of Americaâ??s foreign policy, as compared to the previous administration. One the other hand, what facts have been created by Obama? In Latin America he has been uninterested or unwilling to engage with Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia. He has not created any peace initiatives there â?? as between the Colombian government and FARC. In the Middle East, he has been snubbed by Netanyahu over the illegal settlements and there have been no changes on the ground between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Obama has not even bothered to send a US ambassador to a key nation there â?? Syria. He has not had any serious, lengthy talks with Iran â?? as he promised he would. He has not produced one peace initiative for the Kashmir problem so enabling India and Pakistan to resume discussions. Nor has he produced any initiatives to be discussed between the Sri Lankans and the Tamils. Nor has he been willing to having direct talks with the Taliban, and instead, he has, thus far, simply continued the Bush strategy in Afghanistan. I could go on, but the point, I think should be taken: Obama has not done anything viz-a-viz peace in the world, and so apart from producing lofty speeches, there have been no changes. You may well say, that yes, but it is still early days! Why yes, I couldnâ??t agree more with you, but, wait â?? that would be exactly what I would have said to those wise old men and women in Norway!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me, there are two sides to this story. It is certainly â??goodâ?? for America that Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize â?? it does reflect a sweeping change in the moral attitude of Americaâ??s foreign policy, as compared to the previous administration. One the other hand, what facts have been created by Obama? In Latin America he has been uninterested or unwilling to engage with Cuba, Venezuela and Bolivia. He has not created any peace initiatives there â?? as between the Colombian government and FARC. In the Middle East, he has been snubbed by Netanyahu over the illegal settlements and there have been no changes on the ground between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Obama has not even bothered to send a US ambassador to a key nation there â?? Syria. He has not had any serious, lengthy talks with Iran â?? as he promised he would. He has not produced one peace initiative for the Kashmir problem so enabling India and Pakistan to resume discussions. Nor has he produced any initiatives to be discussed between the Sri Lankans and the Tamils. Nor has he been willing to having direct talks with the Taliban, and instead, he has, thus far, simply continued the Bush strategy in Afghanistan. I could go on, but the point, I think should be taken: Obama has not done anything viz-a-viz peace in the world, and so apart from producing lofty speeches, there have been no changes. You may well say, that yes, but it is still early days! Why yes, I couldnâ??t agree more with you, but, wait â?? that would be exactly what I would have said to those wise old men and women in Norway!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548306</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/12/keeping-obamas-peace-prize-in/#comment-548306</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have to admit that Tom Hanks has made some movies I did not like much, but the following are good:

Apollo 13
Saving Private Ryan
Toy Story (if you have a kid the right age, which I did)
The Green Mile
And a couple of others

Cult-wise, the man with one red shoe and Dragnet are good too. 

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to admit that Tom Hanks has made some movies I did not like much, but the following are good:</p>
<p>Apollo 13<br />
Saving Private Ryan<br />
Toy Story (if you have a kid the right age, which I did)<br />
The Green Mile<br />
And a couple of others</p>
<p>Cult-wise, the man with one red shoe and Dragnet are good too. </p>
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