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	Comments on: The Death of a Gun Owner	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548070</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548070</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Serius: Actually, if you look at the other two recent posts on this topic on this blog you&#039;ll see a number of empirical studies referenced.  As far as &quot;does anybody care about the data,&quot; of course we care, that sort of snark is not productive.  Not that being unproductive stops anybody from being snarky around here. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serius: Actually, if you look at the other two recent posts on this topic on this blog you&#8217;ll see a number of empirical studies referenced.  As far as &#8220;does anybody care about the data,&#8221; of course we care, that sort of snark is not productive.  Not that being unproductive stops anybody from being snarky around here. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Serius		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548069</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Serius]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548069</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Quoting a poster here:

I&#039;d like to see you cite your source in, I assume, the Journal of Bottom Lines before I&#039;ll believe some BS like that.
Let&#039;s all make wild assertions with no supporting evidence and pretend that we&#039;re making valid, convincing arguments! All Rottweilers are homosexual! It&#039;s snowing in Mexico! 90% of all people are above average! Wheee!

John R.Lott, Jr.  &quot;More Guns, Less Crime&quot; (2nd Edition) University of Chicago Press (2000).  

If anyone on this blog actually cares about data, this is the only respectable enpirical study that exists on the questions about which everyone here seems to have already reached unshakable conclusions.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting a poster here:</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see you cite your source in, I assume, the Journal of Bottom Lines before I&#8217;ll believe some BS like that.<br />
Let&#8217;s all make wild assertions with no supporting evidence and pretend that we&#8217;re making valid, convincing arguments! All Rottweilers are homosexual! It&#8217;s snowing in Mexico! 90% of all people are above average! Wheee!</p>
<p>John R.Lott, Jr.  &#8220;More Guns, Less Crime&#8221; (2nd Edition) University of Chicago Press (2000).  </p>
<p>If anyone on this blog actually cares about data, this is the only respectable enpirical study that exists on the questions about which everyone here seems to have already reached unshakable conclusions.</p>
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		<title>
		By: John		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548068</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 19:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548068</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[First I&#039;d like to say I don&#039;t think I&#039;m a &quot;nut&quot;. I&#039;m a center left person myself who tends to be moderate. I would include anti-radicalism as one of many tenets I subscribe to. I understand that I am not the best judge of myself, though.

I don&#039;t support the idea of a person judging their own fitness to own guns. If a person does something to show they are unable to properly own a gun, they should be stripped of their right by the government. I would have no problem if a person had to first get a license before owning a gun, nor do I have a problem with wait times. 

I think it is also silly how people differentiate between good &quot;sport&quot; guns and evil &quot;killing&quot; guns. The only difference between an AR15 (a civilian M16) and a hunting rifle is the aesthetics. This is called the case of the &quot;scary black rifle&quot;. Two guns that fire the same round, at the same semi-auto speed can be pronounced &quot;evil&quot; if it is black composite plastic stock and &quot;good&quot; if it is a woodgrain stock. 

I would like to address the argument that guns are ineffective defense. &quot;First you have to find the gun, then load it, and you&#039;re sleepy&quot;. This is fallacious. Simply grab the gun, pull the slide back, and you&#039;re ready. Again, I&#039;m all for responsibility and regulation, just not outright banning. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First I&#8217;d like to say I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m a &#8220;nut&#8221;. I&#8217;m a center left person myself who tends to be moderate. I would include anti-radicalism as one of many tenets I subscribe to. I understand that I am not the best judge of myself, though.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t support the idea of a person judging their own fitness to own guns. If a person does something to show they are unable to properly own a gun, they should be stripped of their right by the government. I would have no problem if a person had to first get a license before owning a gun, nor do I have a problem with wait times. </p>
<p>I think it is also silly how people differentiate between good &#8220;sport&#8221; guns and evil &#8220;killing&#8221; guns. The only difference between an AR15 (a civilian M16) and a hunting rifle is the aesthetics. This is called the case of the &#8220;scary black rifle&#8221;. Two guns that fire the same round, at the same semi-auto speed can be pronounced &#8220;evil&#8221; if it is black composite plastic stock and &#8220;good&#8221; if it is a woodgrain stock. </p>
<p>I would like to address the argument that guns are ineffective defense. &#8220;First you have to find the gun, then load it, and you&#8217;re sleepy&#8221;. This is fallacious. Simply grab the gun, pull the slide back, and you&#8217;re ready. Again, I&#8217;m all for responsibility and regulation, just not outright banning. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Borlaug		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548067</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Borlaug]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548067</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Best argument against gun control I&#039;ve heard in awhile.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best argument against gun control I&#8217;ve heard in awhile.</p>
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		<title>
		By: MikeB		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548066</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548066</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Always armed - &#039;Burglars in England&#039; are afraid of pretty much the same thing as burglars everywhere: getting caught.  They don&#039;t like dogs,people at home, locked windows, spiky fences, etc, either, but basically getting caught is the main one.  
There may be the occasional gun or two here in the UK, especially on farms, but a gun is not really a deterrent to a burglar, unless they know your behind the door with one.  

The idea of stopping a &#039;home invasion&#039; with a gun always seems to me to be a bit like the argument that if only someone was carrying a gun, then a mad shooter taking out a school/university/shop/McDonalds would be stopped in their tracks.  You hardly ever hear it happening.  A couple of posters have already pointed out that if you wake up and hear a noise downstairs, you&#039;ve got to find the gun, load it, and quietly go and find the burglar.  Of course you are half asleep, while the guy stealing your stuff is wide-awake, possibly has pretty good night vision, and isn&#039;t a stationary target.  And he might have a gun....

In reality, you are more likely to miss the target (easy to do with a handgun), and in the long term, more likely to injure or kill someone in the house.  

Guns don&#039;t really protect, they just give the appearance of protection. Especially when you look at the US v UK murder rate, or even burglary rates which seem to be not dissimilar from a quick Google search. Certainly having a gun in the house (and on show), did nothing to protect this poor woman or her husband.  I have no problem with properly regulated guns for hunting or sport, but its difficult to see what a Glock really did for her other than to provide a handy weapon for a tragedy.

 



]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Always armed &#8211; &#8216;Burglars in England&#8217; are afraid of pretty much the same thing as burglars everywhere: getting caught.  They don&#8217;t like dogs,people at home, locked windows, spiky fences, etc, either, but basically getting caught is the main one.<br />
There may be the occasional gun or two here in the UK, especially on farms, but a gun is not really a deterrent to a burglar, unless they know your behind the door with one.  </p>
<p>The idea of stopping a &#8216;home invasion&#8217; with a gun always seems to me to be a bit like the argument that if only someone was carrying a gun, then a mad shooter taking out a school/university/shop/McDonalds would be stopped in their tracks.  You hardly ever hear it happening.  A couple of posters have already pointed out that if you wake up and hear a noise downstairs, you&#8217;ve got to find the gun, load it, and quietly go and find the burglar.  Of course you are half asleep, while the guy stealing your stuff is wide-awake, possibly has pretty good night vision, and isn&#8217;t a stationary target.  And he might have a gun&#8230;.</p>
<p>In reality, you are more likely to miss the target (easy to do with a handgun), and in the long term, more likely to injure or kill someone in the house.  </p>
<p>Guns don&#8217;t really protect, they just give the appearance of protection. Especially when you look at the US v UK murder rate, or even burglary rates which seem to be not dissimilar from a quick Google search. Certainly having a gun in the house (and on show), did nothing to protect this poor woman or her husband.  I have no problem with properly regulated guns for hunting or sport, but its difficult to see what a Glock really did for her other than to provide a handy weapon for a tragedy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Neil B â?ª		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548065</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neil B â?ª]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548065</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg, the issue is whether we have a right to have guns, not whether you can be sure we&#039;re always going to use them the right way. I affirm the former, even sympathizing with the latter.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg, the issue is whether we have a right to have guns, not whether you can be sure we&#8217;re always going to use them the right way. I affirm the former, even sympathizing with the latter.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Bob Cooter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548064</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Bob Cooter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548064</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aaannndddd .... If shooting did break out, think of the tracer bullets penetrating all those &lt;strike&gt;gasoline cans&lt;/strike&gt; UMiami football players....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaannndddd &#8230;. If shooting did break out, think of the tracer bullets penetrating all those <strike>gasoline cans</strike> UMiami football players&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jim Bob Cooter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548063</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jim Bob Cooter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548063</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[AA, I never said that they don&#039;t. I&#039;m not the one going around making wild statements and pretending they are fact without any sort of empirical support. Except the Rottweiler thing, that&#039;s totally true.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AA, I never said that they don&#8217;t. I&#8217;m not the one going around making wild statements and pretending they are fact without any sort of empirical support. Except the Rottweiler thing, that&#8217;s totally true.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548062</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Aaannndddd .... If shooting did break out, think of the tracer bullets penetrating all those gasoline cans....  

I&#039;m actually a trained community something - or - nuther as part of the Minneapolis SAFE program.  (I&#039;m sure my training has expired.)  If you ask cops how to best protect your home, they&#039;ll tell you lots of things about lights, exterior design, locks, and so on.  If you say &quot;OK, what ONE thing works best&quot; they do not hesitate to say &quot;a dog.&quot;

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aaannndddd &#8230;. If shooting did break out, think of the tracer bullets penetrating all those gasoline cans&#8230;.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually a trained community something &#8211; or &#8211; nuther as part of the Minneapolis SAFE program.  (I&#8217;m sure my training has expired.)  If you ask cops how to best protect your home, they&#8217;ll tell you lots of things about lights, exterior design, locks, and so on.  If you say &#8220;OK, what ONE thing works best&#8221; they do not hesitate to say &#8220;a dog.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: The Science Pundit		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548061</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Science Pundit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/10/08/the-death-of-a-gun-owner/#comment-548061</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Helene from Canada

My mother lives in south Florida and has four dogs.  Since that part of the world is prone to hurricane attacks, many residents have gasoline powered generators on their property in case of a power outage.  My mom is no exception.

A few years ago, my mom was rudely awakened in the dead of night by the incessant barking of the dogs.  She was not amused!  So in the colorful language that she&#039;s prone to using in such situations, she shouted at the top of her lungs &lt;b&gt;&quot;I&#039;M GOING TO STRANGLE EVERY FUCKING LAST ONE OF YOU!!!!&quot;&lt;/b&gt;  I&#039;m not sure how effective this was against the barking, but the dogs did eventually stop.

The next day she discovered that thieves had stolen the gasoline tanks (for the generator) from every house on the block--except her&#039;s.

ps---She doesn&#039;t own a gun, but several of her neighbors do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Helene from Canada</p>
<p>My mother lives in south Florida and has four dogs.  Since that part of the world is prone to hurricane attacks, many residents have gasoline powered generators on their property in case of a power outage.  My mom is no exception.</p>
<p>A few years ago, my mom was rudely awakened in the dead of night by the incessant barking of the dogs.  She was not amused!  So in the colorful language that she&#8217;s prone to using in such situations, she shouted at the top of her lungs <b>&#8220;I&#8217;M GOING TO STRANGLE EVERY FUCKING LAST ONE OF YOU!!!!&#8221;</b>  I&#8217;m not sure how effective this was against the barking, but the dogs did eventually stop.</p>
<p>The next day she discovered that thieves had stolen the gasoline tanks (for the generator) from every house on the block&#8211;except her&#8217;s.</p>
<p>ps&#8212;She doesn&#8217;t own a gun, but several of her neighbors do.</p>
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