How does a moron like me stop spreading the illness around? Basic precautions. If I ever get the flu in the future, it’s my responsibility to stay home and not spread the illness around, wear a mask to keep others from getting sick. The reason the flu is so easily spread is because people infected with the flu decide to go out into public, coughing without covering their mouths, wiping their noses and not washing their hands, spreading illnesses to their family members because they choose not to wear a mask at home. This should be the most important teaching in preventing the flu. Not instructing people to get the vaccine. People need to learn how to keep germs to themselves.

H1N1 notepad
http://www.conspirare.net

H1N1 notepad

October 11 to October 20 2009
On October 12 2009, Prisonplanet publishes that ‘The vaccination propaganda is now kicking into overdrive’ but that ‘corporate mediaâ??s own polls reveal that around two-thirds of parents have serious reservations’ and timesunion.com writes about nurses suing the state to block H1N1 vaccinations. While Khaleej Times publishes that the ‘WHO Denies Reports of H1N1 Vaccineâ??s â??Dangerous Effects’ and that ‘The side effect of administering H1N1 vaccine is limited to a slight fever and pain at the site of injection’. October 13, the LoudounTimes writes about Desiree Jennings who can move sideways and backwards, but not forward. On October 14 The New American publishes that a growing chorus of doctors and researchers is claiming that being injected with the swine flu vaccine may be more hazardous than catching the flu and Florida Today writes ‘Swine flu vaccine here’. FootConsumer publishes that ‘Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, MedImmune, Australian drug maker CSL, and Sanofi-Pasteur will likely make a great deal of money’.

Read the full article with all media references @ http://www.conspirare.net

notepad publishing (a non-profit news agency based in Switzerland)

As for mercury, could you cite where you have determined that it is a problem?

Yes, some people are allergic to egg products. That’s probably why the people who give me my shots every years will first ask if I am allergic to eggs, or have ever had a bad reaction to any vaccine, then ask me to hang around for twenty minutes before leaving.

The normal way to build up immunity to a virus is to get sick with it and survive. Some people will die from the flu, every year. Your immunity would help protect them. Personally, I don’t like being sick and miserable for one or two weeks, and not getting any work done for that time. Then, because I am asthmatic, I cough for the next 6 to 8 weeks, and have a hard time sleeping and exercising. I haven’t had to put up with that for the last ten years, since I started getting the shots.

Vaccines were developed so that people wouldn’t get sick. There are worse viruses out there than the flu, and the flu will eventually mutate into a more dangerous form, as it has in the past. The fewer people that get sick, the less likely it is to happen in any given year. It is people who get sick who spread the virus, and they are rarely the ones who get the vaccine.

As for taking extra precautions when sick, I wonder how that works for the middle school student who doesn’t know she’s sick yet? And I have worked at jobs where the workers simply couldn’t take a day off, either because they needed the money or because of work policies. A vaccine given to enough workers at such a place would prevent a local epidemic. If you prefer getting sick and staying home, more power to you. Not everyone has the option.

The thing is the seasonal flu shot contains egg products which can cause an allergic reaction to some people. As well it contains trace amounts of mercury which is a cumulative poison (meaning with each shot you increase your risk of complications due to mercury exposure. Not to mention any injection has risks of other infection. These risks are often not outlined to the general public who are then left untrusting when thing go wrong with people they know and unable to make a proper informed decision as to their own health.

I don’t get vaccinated because I have built my immune system up to withstand it by fighting it naturally each year. Once every 7 years or so it hits bad as my body learns to deal with new mutations and different strains, but it’s short lived. This process is what vaccines are based on and they are meant for people who’s immune systems are incapable of doing this on it’s own (or for viruses one can not do this without serious complications). They were meant for epidemics and helping immunocomprimised people, not for everyone. Proper sanitation practices, and staying home when sick is a far better way to avoid spreading viruses then vaccines. Vaccines are more convienient to peoples lifestyles however, as they do not interrup work or play. But you are still responsible for spreading the virus if you get vaccinated, get the virus and pass it on because your not aware you have it. Your logic makes no sense, unless you think the vaccine stops the virus from spreading at all… I would like scientific evidence of that please. (it may reduce the time one is infectious but if one is symptomatic and infectious they have the option to take extra precautions to avoid infecting others as those unaware would not.)

If it’s important enough to state an argument. It’s important enough to state it in an way that people can listen to and still maintain their self respect. You do not convince anyone by calling them a moron.

Greg #28

Yes,we basically agree (I think) Perhaps, I just hate seeing my beliefs sold in a less than productive way. Every time I see a pro-vaccine person calling someone who hasn’t gotten whatever shot an idiot or some such I feel an complete body cringe.

2) Some of those people are engaged in damaging rhetoric (see above)
Damaging rhetoric – “Either way, get a shot and don’t be a moron. The person you give the flu to because you didn’t get the shot may be one of those that dies. Wouldn’t that be smart. Not. ”

Really?

3) The system for production and distribution sucks and needs to be fixed.
Sure, that was my point. I have not talked to one person in my area that didn’t get a flu shot because they were against it or thought it was unsafe. I know a lot of school kids who have gotten flu shots. Most of the people who haven’t gotten it say they should…What’s stopping them?

4) Not enough people get vaccinated because of 1,2 and 3 above and maybe other reasons. – I just don’t know. I am unconvinced that the number falling under 1 and 2 is that significant.

Just as an irrelevant rant. – I don’t know I just think really, people get sick. Sadly, sometimes people die. I am all for the CDC and I support their initiatives, but I also want to keep our society from getting too germaphobic/OCD. An immune-compromised person can get sick and die from any number of common illnesses, flu, cold virus, mycobacterium. Is that the target to give people enough shots and to keep every surface immaculate enough to keep them safe? My son was significantly sick 5 times last winter, he missed well over two weeks of school (which is fine, for him to miss school) and when he wasn’t getting sick, he was getting over getting sick and when he wasn’t sick, my daughter or I was.

Yes, they had the flu shot last year and I don’t take the kids out if they have a fever (unless it’s to the doctor or drugstore when there’s no sitter). But, every time, I take a kid out to the library, store, play area with a sneeze or a cough I get glares and stares. Is that really realistic?

So, please don’t make me responsible for some poor person’s death, but I do need to leave the house sometimes.

You ride the bus to get pretty much everywhere you go because you don’t have a car.

You had a kidney transplant four years ago.

You take medication that suppresses your immune system so that you don’t reject the kidney.

You cannot get a flu shot.

The other 30 people on the bus that you take to work six days a week can get a flu shot.

19 of them don’t get one.

14 of them get the flu.

11 of them are symptomatic.

5 of them go to work anyway.

3 or 4 of them don’t cover thier mouths.

You get sick and die because 19 people you are in close contact with nearly every day, did not get thier flu shot.

That’s really all this post is trying to say, get the damned shot for the people you come into contact with that cannot, for whatever reason, have one themselves. There is no point of disagreement, you’re just getting hung up on the language somewhere.

Yes, I’m in total agreement on that. And the don’t get the vaccine, get the vaccine games get old.

But I worry about the priorities. When ever I visit the science blogs there’s seems to be at least one or two rabid posts(and yes, the minute you use the word “moron or stupid, or perhaps ignorant, you qualify as rabid in my book) regarding the flu vaccine. They are not talking about how to improve the system of flu vaccine production and distribution. They are all grabbing that low hanging fruit of “ohhhh, people who don’t get the flu shot are uniformed and stupid”

As far as I can see the flu is not particularly dangerous to the general population.

Another reality, a person who can not get the flu shot AND is at-risk for dying from the flu is not going to be able to go out into public safely without fear of catching the flu from someone directly or indirectly. The flu is not polio, it is not small pox and people who represent it like it is, only undermine their own believability.

Of course if you meant the ‘moron/ and holding someone who doesn’t get the flu shot responsible for a flu’ comment as gentle ribbing…? To me it sounded like more than that. But I will admit I don’t know you or your style. Sure, gentle ribbing is in order for misinformation.