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	Comments on: The Touch of the Phantom: When left is right and right is left	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545776</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 07:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545776</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is going to be an oversimplification  but... first of all, the rubber hand pain and the phantom limb are probably not the same thing. The phantom limb is probably from a sense of proprioception.  

Put one finger on a table top, and put your other arm under the table.  Try to touch your first (on top of the table) finger with the finger of your other arm.  Do it in such a way so you can&#039;t really see your other arm.  

Those fingrs will get pretty close to being tip to tip. 

One part of that ability is knowing exactly where each of your arms/hands/fingers are because of neruons that are keeping track of your movements and sending feedback to your brain, but a lot of that is going on in your brain and not your limbs.  

It&#039;s like when we are at the cabin and my mother in law is knwon to be driving up as well, and my wife calls her.  

&quot;So where are you?&quot;

&quot;Rogers.&quot;

Then later MIL calls &quot;Did you want me to stop at the Best Buy and get that thing?&quot;

&quot;NO, that&#039;s OK&quot;

Then 15 minutes later I say &quot;So, where are they?&quot; and my wife says &quot;Just north of Baxter, I&#039;d guess&quot;

Most of that calculation is in my wife&#039;s brain; The information from &quot;the field&quot; (Mother in law, the arm, whatever) is vague.  The Best Buy is in Baxter, so that call was made on the approach to Baxter.  There are other best buys, but given the aount of time since &quot;We&#039;re in Rogers&quot; and &quot;Do you want me to stop at Best Buy&quot; one guesses that it was Baxter.

In other words, proprioception is a complicated and subtle information system where much of the &quot;inference&quot; is happening inside the brain.  The limb might be there or not be there, the inferences are still going to happen with only a little, or even no, input.  Eventually phantom limb sensation wears away for most people.  


]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is going to be an oversimplification  but&#8230; first of all, the rubber hand pain and the phantom limb are probably not the same thing. The phantom limb is probably from a sense of proprioception.  </p>
<p>Put one finger on a table top, and put your other arm under the table.  Try to touch your first (on top of the table) finger with the finger of your other arm.  Do it in such a way so you can&#8217;t really see your other arm.  </p>
<p>Those fingrs will get pretty close to being tip to tip. </p>
<p>One part of that ability is knowing exactly where each of your arms/hands/fingers are because of neruons that are keeping track of your movements and sending feedback to your brain, but a lot of that is going on in your brain and not your limbs.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like when we are at the cabin and my mother in law is knwon to be driving up as well, and my wife calls her.  </p>
<p>&#8220;So where are you?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Rogers.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then later MIL calls &#8220;Did you want me to stop at the Best Buy and get that thing?&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;NO, that&#8217;s OK&#8221;</p>
<p>Then 15 minutes later I say &#8220;So, where are they?&#8221; and my wife says &#8220;Just north of Baxter, I&#8217;d guess&#8221;</p>
<p>Most of that calculation is in my wife&#8217;s brain; The information from &#8220;the field&#8221; (Mother in law, the arm, whatever) is vague.  The Best Buy is in Baxter, so that call was made on the approach to Baxter.  There are other best buys, but given the aount of time since &#8220;We&#8217;re in Rogers&#8221; and &#8220;Do you want me to stop at Best Buy&#8221; one guesses that it was Baxter.</p>
<p>In other words, proprioception is a complicated and subtle information system where much of the &#8220;inference&#8221; is happening inside the brain.  The limb might be there or not be there, the inferences are still going to happen with only a little, or even no, input.  Eventually phantom limb sensation wears away for most people.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: MadScientist		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545775</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MadScientist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 04:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545775</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wasn&#039;t aware of that defect. Hmm ... now I feel the urge to try it out on people.  I&#039;ve heard a number of Vietnam vets telling me about their ghost pains in their amputated limbs and always wondered why the brain does that.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t aware of that defect. Hmm &#8230; now I feel the urge to try it out on people.  I&#8217;ve heard a number of Vietnam vets telling me about their ghost pains in their amputated limbs and always wondered why the brain does that.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545774</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545774</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Nice comment, Serena, but I think you are just trying to distract us from the fact that you once had a crush on Kirk Cameron... ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice comment, Serena, but I think you are just trying to distract us from the fact that you once had a crush on Kirk Cameron&#8230; </p>
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		<title>
		By: Serena		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545773</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Serena]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545773</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This study reminds me of the stories Dr. Oliver Sacks presents in his book, &quot;The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat&quot;.  There are several stories of people who have amputated limbs but have phantom pain or similar experiences.  I wonder if the research in this study can help shed light on how to help individuals with phantom pain.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This study reminds me of the stories Dr. Oliver Sacks presents in his book, &#8220;The Man Who Mistook His Wife For a Hat&#8221;.  There are several stories of people who have amputated limbs but have phantom pain or similar experiences.  I wonder if the research in this study can help shed light on how to help individuals with phantom pain.</p>
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		<title>
		By: NewEnglandBob		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545772</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NewEnglandBob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545772</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is a well known phenomenon.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a well known phenomenon.</p>
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		<title>
		By: HP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545771</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[HP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545771</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Andrew (#2): It may not seem very practical at this stage, but this line of research is absolutely fundamental to the development of my race of Atomic Super-men.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew (#2): It may not seem very practical at this stage, but this line of research is absolutely fundamental to the development of my race of Atomic Super-men.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Omar		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545770</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Omar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545770</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is also called the Dr. Strangelove Effect. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is also called the Dr. Strangelove Effect. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrew		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545769</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 18:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545769</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I wonder what the practical applications of this research would be. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what the practical applications of this research would be. </p>
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		<title>
		By: LightningRose		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545768</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LightningRose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Sep 2009 12:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/20/the-touch-of-the-phantom-when/#comment-545768</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stupid humans!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stupid humans!</p>
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