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	Comments on: NCSE Genie Scott reviews Darwin film.  Likes it.	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Va KP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544757</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Va KP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544757</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[kermit: One more thing. You said Stacey&#039;s claims had been refuted. Could you elaborate for me because I am new to those. I may need so ammo one day and maybe you could help me with that. Thanks again..]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kermit: One more thing. You said Stacey&#8217;s claims had been refuted. Could you elaborate for me because I am new to those. I may need so ammo one day and maybe you could help me with that. Thanks again..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Va KP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544756</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Va KP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544756</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thank you kermit. Truly. You&#039;re right there are many tried and true proven things in science. I do not dispute that and our friend Stacey hopefully would not dispute that either. It&#039;s just hard for me to believe as I do in our evolutionary process and not still question origin. If it possibly could be understood? Can we as humans be so bold to say that we understand it all? Why keep searching to prove if we have become so sure? Maybe I am just of the inferior or less evolved that I still question things. Or could it be the opposite? I do agree with many of the points you ave made, but you cannot deny the areas of science where there are loose ends and blind data. I do thank you for your response. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you kermit. Truly. You&#8217;re right there are many tried and true proven things in science. I do not dispute that and our friend Stacey hopefully would not dispute that either. It&#8217;s just hard for me to believe as I do in our evolutionary process and not still question origin. If it possibly could be understood? Can we as humans be so bold to say that we understand it all? Why keep searching to prove if we have become so sure? Maybe I am just of the inferior or less evolved that I still question things. Or could it be the opposite? I do agree with many of the points you ave made, but you cannot deny the areas of science where there are loose ends and blind data. I do thank you for your response. </p>
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		<title>
		By: kermit		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544755</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kermit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544755</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stacey: believe it or not, these arguments are quite old, and they have been refuted some centuries back. Pick up an introductory book on Western philosophy, and you will see them laid out in detail.

VA KP: of course we are &quot;indoctrinated&quot; in universities, but most people call it education. There are certainly blinders as well as cultural and philosophical viewpoints presented, but I think most folks would find that ignorance is a far greater handicap. Once skilled in discourse, reason, and scientific methodology, one can sometimes reconsider a mistaken idea. An ignorant illiterate hasn&#039;t a chance. The trick is to learn a wide range of knowledge (as you suggest), and to try to understand different viewpoints, both of which require learning. There&#039;s really no substitute for scientific methodology in figuring out how the world works.

If people respond rudely in newsgroups, forums, or blogs like this, sometimes it it because they are tired of hearing the same easily refuted claims yet one more time...

Stacey, the existence of a deity (or belief in such) is largely irrelevant to knowing how to fix an automobile. So is it with understanding the mechanics of the universe. If you think your holy scriptures say X, and the data show otherwise, you have several alternatives:
1. You are wrong in your interpretations.
2. Your holy scriptures are wrong.
3. The universe is an illusion, a contrivance, and nothing - including your holy books and your personal understanding of them - can be trusted.
Cautious readers will note that I did not list a fourth alternative: 
4. The data is wrong.

That&#039;s because there is *always the possibility that the data is wrong (either our observations are wrong, or the model we use to explain them). But science looks for continual verification of the data, and the models are tested. They may always be wrong in principle, but if the models (theories) fit the facts and continually make successful predictions, they are as right and true as anything we can know.

Some theories, like common descent thru modification, and the primary mechanism of natural selection, are supported by so much data from so many fields of scientific research that it would indeed be perverse to deny it. So fit a god or two in there if you like, but evolution is how they did it.


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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stacey: believe it or not, these arguments are quite old, and they have been refuted some centuries back. Pick up an introductory book on Western philosophy, and you will see them laid out in detail.</p>
<p>VA KP: of course we are &#8220;indoctrinated&#8221; in universities, but most people call it education. There are certainly blinders as well as cultural and philosophical viewpoints presented, but I think most folks would find that ignorance is a far greater handicap. Once skilled in discourse, reason, and scientific methodology, one can sometimes reconsider a mistaken idea. An ignorant illiterate hasn&#8217;t a chance. The trick is to learn a wide range of knowledge (as you suggest), and to try to understand different viewpoints, both of which require learning. There&#8217;s really no substitute for scientific methodology in figuring out how the world works.</p>
<p>If people respond rudely in newsgroups, forums, or blogs like this, sometimes it it because they are tired of hearing the same easily refuted claims yet one more time&#8230;</p>
<p>Stacey, the existence of a deity (or belief in such) is largely irrelevant to knowing how to fix an automobile. So is it with understanding the mechanics of the universe. If you think your holy scriptures say X, and the data show otherwise, you have several alternatives:<br />
1. You are wrong in your interpretations.<br />
2. Your holy scriptures are wrong.<br />
3. The universe is an illusion, a contrivance, and nothing &#8211; including your holy books and your personal understanding of them &#8211; can be trusted.<br />
Cautious readers will note that I did not list a fourth alternative:<br />
4. The data is wrong.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s because there is *always the possibility that the data is wrong (either our observations are wrong, or the model we use to explain them). But science looks for continual verification of the data, and the models are tested. They may always be wrong in principle, but if the models (theories) fit the facts and continually make successful predictions, they are as right and true as anything we can know.</p>
<p>Some theories, like common descent thru modification, and the primary mechanism of natural selection, are supported by so much data from so many fields of scientific research that it would indeed be perverse to deny it. So fit a god or two in there if you like, but evolution is how they did it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Va KP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544754</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Va KP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544754</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Stephanie z:       Yeah, you&#039;re right. It is just hard for me to see someone express their intelligence with such an ignorant comment. To totally give no thought or other veiw to the readers other than the word horseshit. If it is horseshit then why? Can we truly explain everything in this world? NO, and anyone that claims to be able to has become the fool. However, why can&#039;t we simply explain why we think a certain way and freely express our ideas together. Knowledge is to be shared. Frankly, do we believe everything we hear. Of course not, but we go to major universities and schools to be indoctrinated with their forms of thought and obsevation. I am thankful for those that dare to think outside the box and at least share with others. How can we learn and observe unless we share. And frankly a comment like horseshit just does not cut the mustard. This man has to be more intelligent than this...can he not share his great wisdom?....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephanie z:       Yeah, you&#8217;re right. It is just hard for me to see someone express their intelligence with such an ignorant comment. To totally give no thought or other veiw to the readers other than the word horseshit. If it is horseshit then why? Can we truly explain everything in this world? NO, and anyone that claims to be able to has become the fool. However, why can&#8217;t we simply explain why we think a certain way and freely express our ideas together. Knowledge is to be shared. Frankly, do we believe everything we hear. Of course not, but we go to major universities and schools to be indoctrinated with their forms of thought and obsevation. I am thankful for those that dare to think outside the box and at least share with others. How can we learn and observe unless we share. And frankly a comment like horseshit just does not cut the mustard. This man has to be more intelligent than this&#8230;can he not share his great wisdom?&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Stephanie Z		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544753</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544753</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Va KP, will you teach your children to stop and explain everything about the world at the whim of any indivdual passerby? That&#039;s basically what you&#039;re asking of Bob and Wyatt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Va KP, will you teach your children to stop and explain everything about the world at the whim of any indivdual passerby? That&#8217;s basically what you&#8217;re asking of Bob and Wyatt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Va KP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544752</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Va KP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544752</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am just wondering if Bob or Wyatt would please address their comments in a more intelligent way. This society has demeaned us to the point of responding like children rather than discussing differing opinions in a intelligent fashion. I hope my children and more from these coming generations can express what they think with out hate or lack of character.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just wondering if Bob or Wyatt would please address their comments in a more intelligent way. This society has demeaned us to the point of responding like children rather than discussing differing opinions in a intelligent fashion. I hope my children and more from these coming generations can express what they think with out hate or lack of character.</p>
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		<title>
		By: VA KP		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544751</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[VA KP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544751</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I am just wondering if Bob or Wyatt would please address their comments in a more intelligent way. This society has demeaned us to the point of responding like children rather than discussing differing opinions in a intelligent fashion. I hope my children and more from these coming generations can express what they think with out hate or lack of character.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am just wondering if Bob or Wyatt would please address their comments in a more intelligent way. This society has demeaned us to the point of responding like children rather than discussing differing opinions in a intelligent fashion. I hope my children and more from these coming generations can express what they think with out hate or lack of character.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wyatt		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544750</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wyatt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544750</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was being funny.  I should have said &quot;Bob, can you please try to be more concise next time?&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was being funny.  I should have said &#8220;Bob, can you please try to be more concise next time?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rich Wilson		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544749</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rich Wilson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544749</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wyatt, I think the point was to save us valuable time.  I found New England Bob&#039;s summary nicely concise.  I honestly got mired trying to wade through Stacey&#039;s original.  Thanks Bob!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wyatt, I think the point was to save us valuable time.  I found New England Bob&#8217;s summary nicely concise.  I honestly got mired trying to wade through Stacey&#8217;s original.  Thanks Bob!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Wyatt		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544748</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wyatt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/09/13/ncse-genie-scott-reviews-darwi/#comment-544748</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[New England Bob:  And your point is?  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New England Bob:  And your point is?  </p>
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