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	<title>
	Comments on: Natural Selection is Survival Of the Fittest (A Falsehood)	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:54:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Kane Gruber		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543175</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kane Gruber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543175</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ah! Interesting. I love discussing this stuff. The more we can understand it, the better we get.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah! Interesting. I love discussing this stuff. The more we can understand it, the better we get.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543174</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543174</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kane, yes, the competing species is definitely part of the context! 

My comment on heritability is in reference to your example.  

Yes, a trait may have a negative and positive effect. That is actually quite common .]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kane, yes, the competing species is definitely part of the context! </p>
<p>My comment on heritability is in reference to your example.  </p>
<p>Yes, a trait may have a negative and positive effect. That is actually quite common .</p>
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		<title>
		By: Michael Kelsey		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543173</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Kelsey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543173</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Kane Gruber #43: Greg wrote, &quot;Something we see as a disease may have a benefit somewhere else in someone’s life history.&quot; To which you replied, &quot;Within the same species? If so, that’s an interesting concept I hadn’t heard of.&quot;

Please look up &quot;sickle cell trait.&quot;  It is not the only example, but it&#039;s the canonical one used in lay discussions.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kane Gruber #43: Greg wrote, &#8220;Something we see as a disease may have a benefit somewhere else in someone’s life history.&#8221; To which you replied, &#8220;Within the same species? If so, that’s an interesting concept I hadn’t heard of.&#8221;</p>
<p>Please look up &#8220;sickle cell trait.&#8221;  It is not the only example, but it&#8217;s the canonical one used in lay discussions.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Kane Gruber		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543172</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kane Gruber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2016 17:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543172</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&#062; But, different genetic adaptations may compete with each other in the same gene pool, so “good enough” loses to “gooder enough.”

In my mind, that seems like it would alter the environmental context. The trait would be good enough *until* the context is changed. And wouldn&#039;t the whole of the environment, including competing species, be the context?

&#062; Also, the trait has to be heritable/genetic.

I did say &quot;heritable&quot;. :-)

&#062; Something we see as a disease may have a benefit somewhere else in someone’s life history.

Within the same species? If so, that&#039;s an interesting concept I hadn&#039;t heard of. If not, then it seems that it would be a different context.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; But, different genetic adaptations may compete with each other in the same gene pool, so “good enough” loses to “gooder enough.”</p>
<p>In my mind, that seems like it would alter the environmental context. The trait would be good enough *until* the context is changed. And wouldn&#8217;t the whole of the environment, including competing species, be the context?</p>
<p>&gt; Also, the trait has to be heritable/genetic.</p>
<p>I did say &#8220;heritable&#8221;. 🙂</p>
<p>&gt; Something we see as a disease may have a benefit somewhere else in someone’s life history.</p>
<p>Within the same species? If so, that&#8217;s an interesting concept I hadn&#8217;t heard of. If not, then it seems that it would be a different context.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543171</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 22:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543171</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Kane, I&#039;m sure something like that happens a lot.  But, different genetic adaptations may compete with each other in the same gene pool, so &quot;good enough&quot; loses to &quot;gooder enough.&quot; 

Also, the trait has to be heritable/genetic.

And then there are polymorphisms. Something we see as a disease may have a benefit somewhere else in someone&#039;s life history.

See: http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/02/05/the-three-necessary-and-suffic-1/]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kane, I&#8217;m sure something like that happens a lot.  But, different genetic adaptations may compete with each other in the same gene pool, so &#8220;good enough&#8221; loses to &#8220;gooder enough.&#8221; </p>
<p>Also, the trait has to be heritable/genetic.</p>
<p>And then there are polymorphisms. Something we see as a disease may have a benefit somewhere else in someone&#8217;s life history.</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/02/05/the-three-necessary-and-suffic-1/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2008/02/05/the-three-necessary-and-suffic-1/</a></p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Kane Gruber		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543170</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kane Gruber]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 21:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543170</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve learned to see it as &quot;Any heritable adaptation not leading to a disadvantage for a species’ survival within its environmental context shall successfully pass to the next generation.&quot; 

By &quot;not leading to a disadvantage&quot; I mean we don&#039;t pass on the Best Adaptations, just the Good Enough Adaptations. After all, arthritis doesn&#039;t appear to provide any advantage. But since it hasn&#039;t stood in the way of species survival (or individual survival), then it persists. Survival: persistence of the adaptation. Fittest: Appropriate enough for the context.

Is this not accurate?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve learned to see it as &#8220;Any heritable adaptation not leading to a disadvantage for a species’ survival within its environmental context shall successfully pass to the next generation.&#8221; </p>
<p>By &#8220;not leading to a disadvantage&#8221; I mean we don&#8217;t pass on the Best Adaptations, just the Good Enough Adaptations. After all, arthritis doesn&#8217;t appear to provide any advantage. But since it hasn&#8217;t stood in the way of species survival (or individual survival), then it persists. Survival: persistence of the adaptation. Fittest: Appropriate enough for the context.</p>
<p>Is this not accurate?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543169</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2016 13:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543169</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543168&quot;&gt;Ashwin Sasidharan&lt;/a&gt;.

Ashwin,

Fitness is the relative effect of an allele (though sometimes measured as a trait, which is somewhat indirect) on representation of itself in the next generation.  That is very precise concept.  

However, as you imply, the actual operationalization of this is not as clear.  Defining what the genetic underpinning of a trait is is difficult.  (Fitness can be used in non-genetic systems as long as it is something that replicates fairly reliably).  The actual fitness of a variant often depends on the context, so the fitness can change with the context.  Because of this, the actual fitness is probaby best determined after the fact, and that makes fitness look to many like a tautology. But the concept of fitness, what it actually is, and how one would measure it given enough control, is not a tautology and not ambiguous.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543168">Ashwin Sasidharan</a>.</p>
<p>Ashwin,</p>
<p>Fitness is the relative effect of an allele (though sometimes measured as a trait, which is somewhat indirect) on representation of itself in the next generation.  That is very precise concept.  </p>
<p>However, as you imply, the actual operationalization of this is not as clear.  Defining what the genetic underpinning of a trait is is difficult.  (Fitness can be used in non-genetic systems as long as it is something that replicates fairly reliably).  The actual fitness of a variant often depends on the context, so the fitness can change with the context.  Because of this, the actual fitness is probaby best determined after the fact, and that makes fitness look to many like a tautology. But the concept of fitness, what it actually is, and how one would measure it given enough control, is not a tautology and not ambiguous.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ashwin Sasidharan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543168</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ashwin Sasidharan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2016 05:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543168</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One thing i have always wondered is , what exactly do Biologists mean when they say &#039;Fit&#039;.
As far as i know, there is no specific definition. A quality that is &#039;Fit&#039; in one particular situation is &#039;Unfit&#039; in another.
So the concept of fitness itself is a highly fluid one and in many cases we determine something is Fit only after the Event.
They might as well say whatever survived , survived and there is a reason for it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing i have always wondered is , what exactly do Biologists mean when they say &#8216;Fit&#8217;.<br />
As far as i know, there is no specific definition. A quality that is &#8216;Fit&#8217; in one particular situation is &#8216;Unfit&#8217; in another.<br />
So the concept of fitness itself is a highly fluid one and in many cases we determine something is Fit only after the Event.<br />
They might as well say whatever survived , survived and there is a reason for it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: shaiza waseem		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543167</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[shaiza waseem]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2014 05:00:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543167</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[this paragraph i said in my competition and i won first prize. my all teachers said where did u get this??...... and many other questions were raised to me]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this paragraph i said in my competition and i won first prize. my all teachers said where did u get this??&#8230;&#8230; and many other questions were raised to me</p>
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		<title>
		By: Florine21Hartman		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543166</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Florine21Hartman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 01:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/08/26/natural-selection-is-survival/#comment-543166</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The &lt;a href=&quot;http://goodfinance-blog.com/topics/business-loans&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;business loans&lt;/a&gt; suppose to be important for people, which want to organize their organization. As a fact, this is very easy to receive a secured loan. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <a href="http://goodfinance-blog.com/topics/business-loans" rel="nofollow">business loans</a> suppose to be important for people, which want to organize their organization. As a fact, this is very easy to receive a secured loan. </p>
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