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	Comments on: Dirty poor people living in slime: Missionaries and American Idol	</title>
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		<title>
		By: trina		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538721</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trina]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2014 10:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538721</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[good post, happy to see it.  I&#039;ve spent the past year in E. Africa and the horn of Africa.  My experience is that missionaries and many foreign non-profits were damaging though intending well.  I agree with write a check, but write it to a place that is truly working to strengthen the community and family vs. separate them...maybe that&#039;s the UN as you&#039;ve written, i&#039;m not sure.  thank you for being direct and honest on a topic that often receives attacks.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good post, happy to see it.  I&#8217;ve spent the past year in E. Africa and the horn of Africa.  My experience is that missionaries and many foreign non-profits were damaging though intending well.  I agree with write a check, but write it to a place that is truly working to strengthen the community and family vs. separate them&#8230;maybe that&#8217;s the UN as you&#8217;ve written, i&#8217;m not sure.  thank you for being direct and honest on a topic that often receives attacks.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ben		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538720</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Apr 2013 09:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538720</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Contrary to its intended purpose, this article has strengthened my resolve to give to missionary work in Africa. Poverty or wealth, Jesus saves. Praise God!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Contrary to its intended purpose, this article has strengthened my resolve to give to missionary work in Africa. Poverty or wealth, Jesus saves. Praise God!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538719</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538719</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[tioedong:  Money for protestant megamissionaries goes primarily to air flights, fuel to power fancy suburban ameneties, and the good life for a small number of people, as far as I can tell.  The second biggest expenditure is hospital and education costs for people who are not just drop ins, but mainly part of the mission, especially the schools.  Those are religious schools.  I think you are seriously underestimating the negative effects of even casual religious training in relation to the larger problem.  

But yes, the sensible production and movement of food is a good thing.  But I would not argue that stopping funding is a good idea, and I strongly argue that secular outlets such as NGO&#039;s and the UN work better.  Well, I&#039;ve only worked a little with UN but I&#039;ve worked with secular NGO&#039;s and there is a vast difference. 

Reallocation from the current ways of spending may well be in order, however. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tioedong:  Money for protestant megamissionaries goes primarily to air flights, fuel to power fancy suburban ameneties, and the good life for a small number of people, as far as I can tell.  The second biggest expenditure is hospital and education costs for people who are not just drop ins, but mainly part of the mission, especially the schools.  Those are religious schools.  I think you are seriously underestimating the negative effects of even casual religious training in relation to the larger problem.  </p>
<p>But yes, the sensible production and movement of food is a good thing.  But I would not argue that stopping funding is a good idea, and I strongly argue that secular outlets such as NGO&#8217;s and the UN work better.  Well, I&#8217;ve only worked a little with UN but I&#8217;ve worked with secular NGO&#8217;s and there is a vast difference. </p>
<p>Reallocation from the current ways of spending may well be in order, however. </p>
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		<title>
		By: tioedong		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538718</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tioedong]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538718</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A lot of it depends on what you mean as &quot;missionary&quot;.
We have a lot of Americans who come here to the Philippines to teach them that Catholicism is pagan and evil, and train them to think like Americans: Be honest, don&#039;t lie or cheat, be tight with your money, and forget the part about helping your non &quot;christian&quot; neighbor or drinking a &quot;San Mig&quot; during the fiesta.. So I agree with some of your post.

On the other hand, in a lot of Africa, most rural hospitals are run by churches or church related groups. I&#039;ve heard of some that insist you listen to hymns or preaching before treatment, but such hospitals are few and far between. Most of the Catholic hospitals (or hospitals run by mainline Protestant churches) are pretty liberal about such things, and often have non believers on staff.

And remember, a lot of charity money ends up in people&#039;s pockets...so giving to a non church NGO or the UN might not be a good answer.

How about using time and energy to petition the European Union to stop subsidizing their food, and to allow African food to be imported? Or pressuring NGO&#039;s to support a &quot;green revolution&quot; there? 

The &quot;green revolution&quot; works: notice India and China are no longer starving...and although we grow and sell organic food, there is no reason not to do both ways to grow food.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of it depends on what you mean as &#8220;missionary&#8221;.<br />
We have a lot of Americans who come here to the Philippines to teach them that Catholicism is pagan and evil, and train them to think like Americans: Be honest, don&#8217;t lie or cheat, be tight with your money, and forget the part about helping your non &#8220;christian&#8221; neighbor or drinking a &#8220;San Mig&#8221; during the fiesta.. So I agree with some of your post.</p>
<p>On the other hand, in a lot of Africa, most rural hospitals are run by churches or church related groups. I&#8217;ve heard of some that insist you listen to hymns or preaching before treatment, but such hospitals are few and far between. Most of the Catholic hospitals (or hospitals run by mainline Protestant churches) are pretty liberal about such things, and often have non believers on staff.</p>
<p>And remember, a lot of charity money ends up in people&#8217;s pockets&#8230;so giving to a non church NGO or the UN might not be a good answer.</p>
<p>How about using time and energy to petition the European Union to stop subsidizing their food, and to allow African food to be imported? Or pressuring NGO&#8217;s to support a &#8220;green revolution&#8221; there? </p>
<p>The &#8220;green revolution&#8221; works: notice India and China are no longer starving&#8230;and although we grow and sell organic food, there is no reason not to do both ways to grow food.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Caravelle		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538717</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Caravelle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538717</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[JosÃ© : &lt;i&gt;Good for you. That&#039;s your experience. It&#039;s not mine.&lt;/i&gt;

To be fair I don&#039;t think those experiences mean anything either way, I was just answering an anecdote with an anecdote...

&lt;i&gt;I had ever come across colton mining before, I never made a connection something I was doing.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, as far as the connection to something we&#039;re doing goes, I&#039;m not sure there&#039;s much to be done there. Not buying a cellphone won&#039;t change much in the big scheme of things, and I&#039;ve never heard of sustainable electronics*. Still, better to know than not to, in case that changes. Or in case I turn activist :p

&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m sure we&#039;re all guilty of unknowingly doing something that contributes negatively to the lives of somebody somewhere in the world. Just because these things are not hidden from us, doesn&#039;t necessarily mean we&#039;re irresponsible for not knowing about them. And it certainly doesn&#039;t mean we don&#039;t care or don&#039;t want to know about them.&lt;/i&gt;

I guess I just disagree with that. I can&#039;t know everything that goes on in the world, but insofar as I could know *more* with little effort, I&#039;m responsible. And while it doesn&#039;t mean I don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to know things, it does mean that I don&#039;t care to the exact extent where I didn&#039;t bother to get more informed.
 
And I accept that; I can&#039;t care about everything, I like to be a good person but I also like to do what I want and enjoy my own life. All I can do is get to a balance I feel comfortable with. With as little denial as possible involved, preferably. But then denial is one of those unknown unknowns isn&#039;t it...

*Hey ! You know what I could do ? Google &quot;sustainable electronics&quot; ! Eh, or not, we&#039;ll see. 
If I don&#039;t though, and it turns out there&#039;s AMAZING THINGS I could do to make the world better, I do think I&#039;ll bear some responsibility for my ignorance of that fact. Not as in &quot;the world sucks and it&#039;s my fault&quot; of course, more like &quot;okay, I could have done better there&quot;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JosÃ© : <i>Good for you. That&#8217;s your experience. It&#8217;s not mine.</i></p>
<p>To be fair I don&#8217;t think those experiences mean anything either way, I was just answering an anecdote with an anecdote&#8230;</p>
<p><i>I had ever come across colton mining before, I never made a connection something I was doing.</i></p>
<p>Well, as far as the connection to something we&#8217;re doing goes, I&#8217;m not sure there&#8217;s much to be done there. Not buying a cellphone won&#8217;t change much in the big scheme of things, and I&#8217;ve never heard of sustainable electronics*. Still, better to know than not to, in case that changes. Or in case I turn activist :p</p>
<p><i>I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;re all guilty of unknowingly doing something that contributes negatively to the lives of somebody somewhere in the world. Just because these things are not hidden from us, doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean we&#8217;re irresponsible for not knowing about them. And it certainly doesn&#8217;t mean we don&#8217;t care or don&#8217;t want to know about them.</i></p>
<p>I guess I just disagree with that. I can&#8217;t know everything that goes on in the world, but insofar as I could know *more* with little effort, I&#8217;m responsible. And while it doesn&#8217;t mean I don&#8217;t <i>want</i> to know things, it does mean that I don&#8217;t care to the exact extent where I didn&#8217;t bother to get more informed.</p>
<p>And I accept that; I can&#8217;t care about everything, I like to be a good person but I also like to do what I want and enjoy my own life. All I can do is get to a balance I feel comfortable with. With as little denial as possible involved, preferably. But then denial is one of those unknown unknowns isn&#8217;t it&#8230;</p>
<p>*Hey ! You know what I could do ? Google &#8220;sustainable electronics&#8221; ! Eh, or not, we&#8217;ll see.<br />
If I don&#8217;t though, and it turns out there&#8217;s AMAZING THINGS I could do to make the world better, I do think I&#8217;ll bear some responsibility for my ignorance of that fact. Not as in &#8220;the world sucks and it&#8217;s my fault&#8221; of course, more like &#8220;okay, I could have done better there&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Qwerty		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538716</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Qwerty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538716</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I spent 18 months in Eritrea during the 1970s while in the US Navy. (Yes, the navy, we had a communications station there.)

Recently, we&#039;ve had a flood of Somali immigrants to the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Why? Don&#039;t know, but it often reminds me of my time in Africa.

There was also a war going on as Eritrea was a part of Ethiopia at the time and a seperatist movement was under way, but Americans stationed there were in very little danger.

Greg&#039;s right in htat most Americans have a very myopic and incorrect view of Africa.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I spent 18 months in Eritrea during the 1970s while in the US Navy. (Yes, the navy, we had a communications station there.)</p>
<p>Recently, we&#8217;ve had a flood of Somali immigrants to the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. Why? Don&#8217;t know, but it often reminds me of my time in Africa.</p>
<p>There was also a war going on as Eritrea was a part of Ethiopia at the time and a seperatist movement was under way, but Americans stationed there were in very little danger.</p>
<p>Greg&#8217;s right in htat most Americans have a very myopic and incorrect view of Africa.</p>
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		By: Hypatia's Daughter		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538715</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hypatia's Daughter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538715</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[You cannot fault people for being uninformed about something like coltran. I have never heard of it. But all my general news comes from local TV &amp; newspapers who never cover non-US issues beyond 2 - 3 sentences under &quot;International News&quot;. And I am in a big southern city with a major paper. These outlets have to be careful how much time they spend on these issues before readership stops buying and they get accused of being anti-American commies.
But you CAN fault people for having an opinion (like the war in the Sudan or rape in Africa) without doing some research first. Disinterest and ignorance is one thing; being opinionated about something of which your are  ill-informed is another.
That is the true gift that Lushbag, O&#039;Lielly, FoxNews and their ilk make to the right. They take the real news, wash out any unpleasant &quot;liberal&quot; facts and spin dry to the perfect right-wing fluffiness to make it soft &amp; comfy for their already ill-informed listeners. 
They are like the Mafia&#039;s money launderers, but they wash the truth, not money.
And they are the sole source of news for a frightening number of people.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You cannot fault people for being uninformed about something like coltran. I have never heard of it. But all my general news comes from local TV &#038; newspapers who never cover non-US issues beyond 2 &#8211; 3 sentences under &#8220;International News&#8221;. And I am in a big southern city with a major paper. These outlets have to be careful how much time they spend on these issues before readership stops buying and they get accused of being anti-American commies.<br />
But you CAN fault people for having an opinion (like the war in the Sudan or rape in Africa) without doing some research first. Disinterest and ignorance is one thing; being opinionated about something of which your are  ill-informed is another.<br />
That is the true gift that Lushbag, O&#8217;Lielly, FoxNews and their ilk make to the right. They take the real news, wash out any unpleasant &#8220;liberal&#8221; facts and spin dry to the perfect right-wing fluffiness to make it soft &#038; comfy for their already ill-informed listeners.<br />
They are like the Mafia&#8217;s money launderers, but they wash the truth, not money.<br />
And they are the sole source of news for a frightening number of people.</p>
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		<title>
		By: JosÃ©		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538714</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JosÃ©]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538714</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[@Caravelle
&lt;i&gt;I&#039;d heard about coltan mining, and I&#039;m a not-that-well-informed 25-year-old. &lt;/i&gt;
Good for you.  That&#039;s your experience.  It&#039;s not mine.  I do make an effort to inform myself, and if I had ever come across colton mining before, I never made a connection something I was doing.  Anyway, what I was trying to say doesn&#039;t hinge on this one issue.  I&#039;m sure we&#039;re all guilty of unknowingly doing something that contributes negatively to the lives of  somebody somewhere in the world.  Just because these things are not hidden from us, doesn&#039;t necessarily mean we&#039;re irresponsible for not knowing about them.  And it certainly doesn&#039;t mean we don&#039;t care or don&#039;t want to know about them.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Caravelle<br />
<i>I&#8217;d heard about coltan mining, and I&#8217;m a not-that-well-informed 25-year-old. </i><br />
Good for you.  That&#8217;s your experience.  It&#8217;s not mine.  I do make an effort to inform myself, and if I had ever come across colton mining before, I never made a connection something I was doing.  Anyway, what I was trying to say doesn&#8217;t hinge on this one issue.  I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;re all guilty of unknowingly doing something that contributes negatively to the lives of  somebody somewhere in the world.  Just because these things are not hidden from us, doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean we&#8217;re irresponsible for not knowing about them.  And it certainly doesn&#8217;t mean we don&#8217;t care or don&#8217;t want to know about them.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Sofia		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538713</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sofia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538713</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[OK... it took me a while to get the American Idol connection.  But then I did.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK&#8230; it took me a while to get the American Idol connection.  But then I did.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Andrea		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538712</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrea]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/26/dirty-poor-people-living-in-sl/#comment-538712</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I was a good show today.  I listen now and then an always want to call in. Today I almost did.  Now I never will be able to.  Oh well.  Maybe in my next life .... :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a good show today.  I listen now and then an always want to call in. Today I almost did.  Now I never will be able to.  Oh well.  Maybe in my next life &#8230;. 🙂</p>
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