JK. In all seriousness, I agree that we create in males an entire set of dysfunctional behaviors, ans worse, males are treated with ominously Pavlovian disregard for our actual needs and in complete disregard for our basic human rights.

The one thing I disagree with you on is that this man–IF he is actually mentally ill–deserves to be put into a hospital prison environment, and treated appropriately.

Anecdote .-.-.. . . – : in the last several years I was ( for various reasons I will not discus here) involved with a so-called terrorist, and all of the drama that goes along with the FBI making work for themselves. In a nutshell, it was a Somali guy who taught English overseas, and he was accused of lending material support to terrorism, and recently, after five years of relatively baseless incarceration( speedy trial my ass)he took a plea deal.

Funny thing about it was this–everyone he actually knew or called a friend or associate knew him as a librarian, a tutor, and as a father who was going to college to learn some life skills, but the local Somali’s who knew him all felt that he likely had “bu’ufis” or “desert madness” meaning that he had been raised on a camel, in the hot sun, and likely suffered from what we would call depression with psychotic features. those features included ‘religious speech and ideation”, etc.
But by all accounts his worst most dangerous action while we knew him was that he was a ” very bad driver”.
But he is not, and was not a terrorist.He was an English teacher.

I have to concur with Real – men are terrible at even recognizing the symptoms mental illness, much less seeking help when they do. There are a lot of really fucked up people running around out there, who really would do well to get into therapy and get psychiatric help.

And in all honesty, while I tend to think that Tiller’s murder was intended as a terrorist act, the nut who shot him indicated he’s probably seriously mentally ill. That doesn’t necessarily mean that he should get put into a hospital instead of prison – he is a terrorist and mentally ill or not, prison is where terrorists belong. But there is probably no “supposedly” about it.

I mention this not to excuse him, but because this case is another indication that we really need to deal with the serious problems fostered by archetypal male gender constructs. There are a lot of men who really need help and were they to get it, they would be less likely to commit terrorist acts like this one. And I think the lefty terrorists you speak of are in much the same straights.

There is no reason that political idealism that has turned into despair, must inherently then turn to terrorism. It is not only not rational, it is indicative of a pathological need to vent frustration. It is the same helplessness and fanaticism that causes young people – mostly male, to strap bombs to their chests and blow shit up.

But then, that is how boys are taught to be as men. Lashing out is generally considered reasonable, as long as the cause it just. We’re basically creating social pathologies that, when coupled with actual neurological propensities, can easily turn to violent fear mongering.

Worse, males are particularly less-likely to self diagnose, or be recognized in the spectrum disorders.

Jason: There YOU go again. On topic,on topic, young brother–take your Ritalin, with a grain of “sense of humor”…

That said, both of the arguments you’ve given regarding rehabilitation and making a statement could easily be covered if terrorism laws were expanded to include attacks on minority groups — while the targets aren’t necessarily political, they’re carried out with the same intent. Especially since “violence masquerading as political activism” actually expressly implies that the cases Greg’s talking about are political in nature, thus they’d fit nicely under these existing laws with the laws completely unaltered.

Meme: lolwut?

Dude, you sound like the borderline personality girlfriend from hell “you ::made me:: do it” not ” I did it because,” or “I said this in response to that.” Isn’t there some other way you can generate a hit or two for your onanist blog other than accusing others of being trolls?

You fiebbb’t up little troll you.

If one is going to argue for strong hate crimes laws I don’t think one can make an argument based on deterrence. However, there are other arguments that still work: First, someone committing hate crimes is much less likely to be rehabilitated. So keeping such people away from society makes sense as they continue to be risks much more than most other criminals. Second, severe sentences for hate crimes makes an important statement as a society that we find such crimes particularly reprehensible.

I don’t however think that adding additional hate crimes laws will substantially reduce the amount of “violence masquerading as political activism.”

As for being presumptuous — well, that whole argument with Rystefn happened before I had any idea that he was trolling. We clashed because I thought he was earnestly saying the things he was saying, unaware as to how much it chafed on everyone. Except that he was quite aware that he was trolling.

I don’t much think I’m trying to fit in. I’ve said some pretty inflammatory things myself. I just happen to find a good deal of what Greg writes to be pretty engaging, and I can’t help but get involved in the discussion, no matter how good or bad I come off in the process (and there has certainly been “bad”). If that seems like a need to please and to fit in to you, well, I’m not sure how — maybe by virtue of the fact that I was just complementary to the blog owner, thus appearing to be sycophantic?

Anyway, this is off topic. And I should be cuffed for letting Meme drag me off topic.

We call that ‘game’ “game calls game” where I came from. Trouble was, all the game players ended up dead, imprisoned, or otherwise just plain old fiebbb’t-up somehow.

I might only add that you “get sucked in” because you seem utterly presumptuous as to who and what a troll is, and that leads you to bad judgment rather than listening between the lines and making reasoned responses. Maybe that need to please and fit in actually squeezes you out.

It’s funny that the same right-wingers that are all too willing to use terrorism as a boogeyman have no capability for self-reflection when it comes to their rhetoric against such subsets of society as homosexuals and liberals and abortion doctors.