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	Comments on: The light bulb as heater theory of saving energy.	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/</link>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536475</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 06:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536475</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Wait ... doesn&#039;t some of the light stay around as memories of what you saw!?!?!!?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait &#8230; doesn&#8217;t some of the light stay around as memories of what you saw!?!?!!?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dunc		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536474</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dunc]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 04:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536474</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;As young students in the seventies, we visited British countryside. We wondered why all the plumbing was on the outside of the houses. We were told that it is safe.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Also, a lot of that stuff was retro-fitted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As young students in the seventies, we visited British countryside. We wondered why all the plumbing was on the outside of the houses. We were told that it is safe.</p></blockquote>
<p>Also, a lot of that stuff was retro-fitted.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Lassi HippelÃ¤inen		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536473</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lassi HippelÃ¤inen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536473</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amateurs. Here in Finland (60 degrees or more north), we use plastic pipes with a heating wire embedded inside the wall. Hook to a thermostat and surround with insulation. But mostly our basements are warm enough to prevent freezing. It also preventsÂ problems with humidity and moulding. And the pipes in and out of the house are dug so deep in the ground that they are below frost.

As young students in the seventies, we visited British countryside. We wondered why all the plumbing was on the outside of the houses. We were told that it is safe: you can melt the pipes with a torch without burning down the house. We were amazed by the ingenuity...
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amateurs. Here in Finland (60 degrees or more north), we use plastic pipes with a heating wire embedded inside the wall. Hook to a thermostat and surround with insulation. But mostly our basements are warm enough to prevent freezing. It also preventsÂ problems with humidity and moulding. And the pipes in and out of the house are dug so deep in the ground that they are below frost.</p>
<p>As young students in the seventies, we visited British countryside. We wondered why all the plumbing was on the outside of the houses. We were told that it is safe: you can melt the pipes with a torch without burning down the house. We were amazed by the ingenuity&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill James		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536472</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 02:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536472</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[D. C. Sessions: &lt;i&gt;That&#039;s a very low threshold of &quot;significant...&lt;/i&gt;

Heh... I guess it was and your quite right. I yield the point.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D. C. Sessions: <i>That&#8217;s a very low threshold of &#8220;significant&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Heh&#8230; I guess it was and your quite right. I yield the point.</p>
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		<title>
		By: D. C. Sessions		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536471</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D. C. Sessions]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536471</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;To make matters worse, an incandescent light bulb is significantly less than 100% efficient as a heat source while pure resistive heating is (for all practical purposes) 100% conversion efficient.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s a very low threshold of &quot;significant.&quot;  Aside from light leaving by windows (a small fraction of a low efficiency) every watt of power used by a lamp ends up as heat in the room.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>To make matters worse, an incandescent light bulb is significantly less than 100% efficient as a heat source while pure resistive heating is (for all practical purposes) 100% conversion efficient.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s a very low threshold of &#8220;significant.&#8221;  Aside from light leaving by windows (a small fraction of a low efficiency) every watt of power used by a lamp ends up as heat in the room.</p>
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		<title>
		By: GaryB, FCD		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536470</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GaryB, FCD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536470</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In the Canuckville Midwest, where natural gas heating is the norm, we insulate (exterior and interior) and heat our basements. We only use bulbs under the hood of our cars when the block heater fails.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Canuckville Midwest, where natural gas heating is the norm, we insulate (exterior and interior) and heat our basements. We only use bulbs under the hood of our cars when the block heater fails.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill James		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536469</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536469</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[daedalus2u: &lt;i&gt;I found that if I turned off the pilot light in my gas furnace over the summer it made a noticable difference in my gas consumption.&lt;/i&gt;

You have a pilot light?

Richard Simons: &lt;i&gt;...incandescent lights were actually cheaper to operate, at least in the winter, because of the reduction in heating bills.&lt;/i&gt;

If a home used electrical resistance heating primarily, then the difference between incandescent and fluorescent lighting might be close to a wash in wintertime. Otherwise no. Even in these times of rising energy costs, the difference between electricity as a resistive heat source and natural gas/fuel oil remains too great. 

To make matters worse, an incandescent light bulb is significantly less than 100% efficient as a heat source while pure resistive heating is (for all practical purposes) 100% conversion efficient.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>daedalus2u: <i>I found that if I turned off the pilot light in my gas furnace over the summer it made a noticable difference in my gas consumption.</i></p>
<p>You have a pilot light?</p>
<p>Richard Simons: <i>&#8230;incandescent lights were actually cheaper to operate, at least in the winter, because of the reduction in heating bills.</i></p>
<p>If a home used electrical resistance heating primarily, then the difference between incandescent and fluorescent lighting might be close to a wash in wintertime. Otherwise no. Even in these times of rising energy costs, the difference between electricity as a resistive heat source and natural gas/fuel oil remains too great. </p>
<p>To make matters worse, an incandescent light bulb is significantly less than 100% efficient as a heat source while pure resistive heating is (for all practical purposes) 100% conversion efficient.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Simons		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536468</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Simons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536468</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I had always wondered about this, but been ridiculed by the person who came to check the energy efficiency of our home. However, perhaps six months ago the CBC&#039;s main news program had an item in which they (fairly superficially) looked at the cost savings of using fluorescent versus incandescent lights. They found that in some areas incandescent lights were actually cheaper to operate, at least in the winter, because of the reduction in heating bills. IIRC a major factor was the relative costs of electricity and oil/gas.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had always wondered about this, but been ridiculed by the person who came to check the energy efficiency of our home. However, perhaps six months ago the CBC&#8217;s main news program had an item in which they (fairly superficially) looked at the cost savings of using fluorescent versus incandescent lights. They found that in some areas incandescent lights were actually cheaper to operate, at least in the winter, because of the reduction in heating bills. IIRC a major factor was the relative costs of electricity and oil/gas.</p>
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		<title>
		By: daedalus2u		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536467</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[daedalus2u]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536467</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I found that if I turned off the pilot light in my gas furnace over the summer it made a noticable difference in my gas consumption.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found that if I turned off the pilot light in my gas furnace over the summer it made a noticable difference in my gas consumption.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Bill James		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 19:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/03/the-light-bulb-as-heater-theor/#comment-536466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[As a factor of straight up economics, natural gas or propane being a much cheaper heat source than electricity which is one of the most expensive until you reach for solar etc. So yes, it would be cheaper to let the furnace heat the space enough to prevent freezing of water pipes providing you didn&#039;t have to pay for retrofits. Either way, both methods being cheaper than repairs on a burst water pipe in unheated spaces at twenty below. I grew up in an old farm house. Been there, done that.

As always, insulation is your friend and we wound up using heat tape for those few days (weeks) a year when it gets extremely cold. We just had to remember to plug it in. Interestingly enough it was always the hot water pipe that froze. Hopefully nobody runs water pipes along foundations in unheated crawl spaces anymore. But yes, we used incandescent light bulbs to keep things from freezing for a time including baby chickens, pigs, puppies, kittens, what have you out in the barn. Of course we also had regular infrared heat lamps for that as well. Not to close though.

Which reminds me of an incident we had around here a few years ago having a small contingent of homeless guys who preferred to camp out on the shoals at the confluence of a river and a large stream. Offering little to no shelter from the elements the guys would build fires over the bedrock - favorite places being larger stone slabs - until the rock would build up enough heat to carry over the night. A blanket or two, perhaps a sleeping bag if lucky and maybe a plastic tarp of some fashion should the weather be inclement, the guys would lay upon the rocks for comfortable sleeping. 

This being a practice that continues to this day, on one frozen morning a more unfortunate fellow was found peacefully dead and quite well done having been slow roasted in his slumber. The Darwinian lesson to be learned I suppose is that you simply want to warm the rock and so too our small, furred and feathered friends.

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a factor of straight up economics, natural gas or propane being a much cheaper heat source than electricity which is one of the most expensive until you reach for solar etc. So yes, it would be cheaper to let the furnace heat the space enough to prevent freezing of water pipes providing you didn&#8217;t have to pay for retrofits. Either way, both methods being cheaper than repairs on a burst water pipe in unheated spaces at twenty below. I grew up in an old farm house. Been there, done that.</p>
<p>As always, insulation is your friend and we wound up using heat tape for those few days (weeks) a year when it gets extremely cold. We just had to remember to plug it in. Interestingly enough it was always the hot water pipe that froze. Hopefully nobody runs water pipes along foundations in unheated crawl spaces anymore. But yes, we used incandescent light bulbs to keep things from freezing for a time including baby chickens, pigs, puppies, kittens, what have you out in the barn. Of course we also had regular infrared heat lamps for that as well. Not to close though.</p>
<p>Which reminds me of an incident we had around here a few years ago having a small contingent of homeless guys who preferred to camp out on the shoals at the confluence of a river and a large stream. Offering little to no shelter from the elements the guys would build fires over the bedrock &#8211; favorite places being larger stone slabs &#8211; until the rock would build up enough heat to carry over the night. A blanket or two, perhaps a sleeping bag if lucky and maybe a plastic tarp of some fashion should the weather be inclement, the guys would lay upon the rocks for comfortable sleeping. </p>
<p>This being a practice that continues to this day, on one frozen morning a more unfortunate fellow was found peacefully dead and quite well done having been slow roasted in his slumber. The Darwinian lesson to be learned I suppose is that you simply want to warm the rock and so too our small, furred and feathered friends.</p>
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