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	Comments on: A rape in progress, Part II	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:06:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Stephanie Z		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536394</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stephanie Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536394</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Novathecat, try the reference at the bottom of the blog post. It will have a citation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Novathecat, try the reference at the bottom of the blog post. It will have a citation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Novathecat		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Novathecat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t believe those statistics about rape in the US. Where did you get them? From a reputable journal or some lefty blog? I would like to read the paper these stats came from to evaluate their methods and criteria.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe those statistics about rape in the US. Where did you get them? From a reputable journal or some lefty blog? I would like to read the paper these stats came from to evaluate their methods and criteria.</p>
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		<title>
		By: catgirl		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536392</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[catgirl]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536392</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Date rape or acquaintance rape is much, much more common than stranger rape or kidnapping-type rape in our country.  It&#039;s practically an epidemic and part of the problem is that so many people don&#039;t take it seriously.  It&#039;s not any less than traumatic than stranger rape, and it can be even worse if the victim trusted the rapist before it happened.  There are many ways in which date rape is harder on the victim because it&#039;s much harder to successfully prosecute the rapist (if the judicial system even bothers to try), and the victim might have to face her attacker on a regular basis, if they go to the same school or work together or just live in the same small town.  Victims of date rape are also more likely to be the subject of victim-blaming.  It&#039;s a mistake to think that date rape isn&#039;t as serious as stranger rape.  

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Date rape or acquaintance rape is much, much more common than stranger rape or kidnapping-type rape in our country.  It&#8217;s practically an epidemic and part of the problem is that so many people don&#8217;t take it seriously.  It&#8217;s not any less than traumatic than stranger rape, and it can be even worse if the victim trusted the rapist before it happened.  There are many ways in which date rape is harder on the victim because it&#8217;s much harder to successfully prosecute the rapist (if the judicial system even bothers to try), and the victim might have to face her attacker on a regular basis, if they go to the same school or work together or just live in the same small town.  Victims of date rape are also more likely to be the subject of victim-blaming.  It&#8217;s a mistake to think that date rape isn&#8217;t as serious as stranger rape.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Lobster		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536391</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lobster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 09:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536391</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[#4, I think there can be different levels of rape, in the same way there are different degrees of crime and criminality.  A pickpocket is not on the same level as a bankrobber, and a one-time shoplifter is not on the same level as a habitual one.  While there is a clear delineation between &quot;theft&quot; and &quot;not theft,&quot; there&#039;s a whole gradient once you get beyond that binary distinction.  

Maybe a more appropriate comparison would be assault.  If you punch someone in the arm, it can be construed as assault.  It&#039;s also assault if you beat them nearly to death with a sledgehammer.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#4, I think there can be different levels of rape, in the same way there are different degrees of crime and criminality.  A pickpocket is not on the same level as a bankrobber, and a one-time shoplifter is not on the same level as a habitual one.  While there is a clear delineation between &#8220;theft&#8221; and &#8220;not theft,&#8221; there&#8217;s a whole gradient once you get beyond that binary distinction.  </p>
<p>Maybe a more appropriate comparison would be assault.  If you punch someone in the arm, it can be construed as assault.  It&#8217;s also assault if you beat them nearly to death with a sledgehammer.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536390</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:50:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536390</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have heard one story of an organized rape in Italy by someone who was in the company where it happened but foundit disgusting and did not participate.  That was with a US unit.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have heard one story of an organized rape in Italy by someone who was in the company where it happened but foundit disgusting and did not participate.  That was with a US unit.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Irene Delse		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536389</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Irene Delse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536389</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Greg said:

&quot;One can kill and pillage and not rape, as has been documented for certain armies in the past. I would not assume that the pattern seen in the jungles of Vietnam, the trenches of France in WW I, at Anzio or in Iraq are at all the same, and there is probably as much variation among western armies and occupation forces as there is among African, Asian or any other region, and there is certainly a great deal of variation across historical time as well.&quot;

Thank you for these two very important points. Armies need not rape, even in an occupied country, and it&#039;s something seen in the West as well as elsewhere.

One can even find during the same conflict, in the same army, both kinds of behavior. Take the case of the French colonial (mostly North African) troops in WWII, which took an important part in the liberation of Europe but didn&#039;t get recognition until very late. In 1943, these troops first were sent to Italy and, outside combat, engaged in rape, loot and brutality toward civilians. But next year, when it was necessary to send them to France, these same troops were a model of good behavior! There were probably more French women raped by American G.I.&#039;s, in 1944-45, than by these African soldiers. (And yes, some G.I.s in Normandy raped. There are well documented cases.)

The reason for the difference is obvious... In Italy, the officers, apparently, let the troops know that they didn&#039;t care, they washed their hands in advance about possible abuse, and abuse happened. Not something the Allies brag about, of course. Italy was enemy territory, Mussolini&#039;s troops had taken part in the occupation of France in 1940-42 and the French (even in high command) felt that Italians didn&#039;t deserve favors. 

But in next year&#039;s campaign in France, the same officers and high command made it plainly known that the troops would be on a tight leash and that French women would have to be considered as sacrosanct...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg said:</p>
<p>&#8220;One can kill and pillage and not rape, as has been documented for certain armies in the past. I would not assume that the pattern seen in the jungles of Vietnam, the trenches of France in WW I, at Anzio or in Iraq are at all the same, and there is probably as much variation among western armies and occupation forces as there is among African, Asian or any other region, and there is certainly a great deal of variation across historical time as well.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thank you for these two very important points. Armies need not rape, even in an occupied country, and it&#8217;s something seen in the West as well as elsewhere.</p>
<p>One can even find during the same conflict, in the same army, both kinds of behavior. Take the case of the French colonial (mostly North African) troops in WWII, which took an important part in the liberation of Europe but didn&#8217;t get recognition until very late. In 1943, these troops first were sent to Italy and, outside combat, engaged in rape, loot and brutality toward civilians. But next year, when it was necessary to send them to France, these same troops were a model of good behavior! There were probably more French women raped by American G.I.&#8217;s, in 1944-45, than by these African soldiers. (And yes, some G.I.s in Normandy raped. There are well documented cases.)</p>
<p>The reason for the difference is obvious&#8230; In Italy, the officers, apparently, let the troops know that they didn&#8217;t care, they washed their hands in advance about possible abuse, and abuse happened. Not something the Allies brag about, of course. Italy was enemy territory, Mussolini&#8217;s troops had taken part in the occupation of France in 1940-42 and the French (even in high command) felt that Italians didn&#8217;t deserve favors. </p>
<p>But in next year&#8217;s campaign in France, the same officers and high command made it plainly known that the troops would be on a tight leash and that French women would have to be considered as sacrosanct&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536388</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536388</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is totally a kill switch.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is totally a kill switch.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: elle		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536387</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[elle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:48:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536387</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[so i had something bad happen to me.  he&#039;s dead now.  and i feel better.  no, two wrongs don&#039;t make a right, but fuck him.  i don&#039;t know what happened to him, and i don&#039;t care.  there&#039;s no blood on my hands.

maybe there is a &#039;kill&#039; switch that gets triggered?  i am a bit jaded to see how donated money is dispersed.  

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so i had something bad happen to me.  he&#8217;s dead now.  and i feel better.  no, two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right, but fuck him.  i don&#8217;t know what happened to him, and i don&#8217;t care.  there&#8217;s no blood on my hands.</p>
<p>maybe there is a &#8216;kill&#8217; switch that gets triggered?  i am a bit jaded to see how donated money is dispersed.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: Azkyroth		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536386</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Azkyroth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536386</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I have no idea if date rape is more common than, say incest type rape or violent strange&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Enormously so.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If the majority of rapes are date rape for instance, it seems plausible that only a few men are perpetrators with many victims. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

My impression is that this is actually truer of violent-stranger-type rape than date rape, but I don&#039;t have statistics on it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I have no idea if date rape is more common than, say incest type rape or violent strange</p></blockquote>
<p>Enormously so.</p>
<blockquote><p>If the majority of rapes are date rape for instance, it seems plausible that only a few men are perpetrators with many victims. </p></blockquote>
<p>My impression is that this is actually truer of violent-stranger-type rape than date rape, but I don&#8217;t have statistics on it.</p>
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		<title>
		By: sg		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536385</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/06/01/a-rape-in-progress-part-ii/#comment-536385</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[One thing about the &quot;1 in 3 women,&quot; There can be a  few perpetrators and many victims.  If the majority of rapes are date rape for instance, it seems plausible that only a few men are perpetrators with many victims.  I have no idea if date rape is more common than, say incest type rape or violent stranger.  As has been mentioned some are not prosecuted. If he isn&#039;t prosecuted and incarcerated, he can just move on to the next victim.  

I guess what I am thinking is like in the case of a burglar. How many burglars only rob one apartment? If someone is disposed to rape, he may continue until incarcerated.  It makes me wonder if this is just basic law enforcement.  Unlike a burglar, who if he got a better job, might quit, a rapist may not quit if he has a wife or girlfriend.  The abuse could just change shape.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing about the &#8220;1 in 3 women,&#8221; There can be a  few perpetrators and many victims.  If the majority of rapes are date rape for instance, it seems plausible that only a few men are perpetrators with many victims.  I have no idea if date rape is more common than, say incest type rape or violent stranger.  As has been mentioned some are not prosecuted. If he isn&#8217;t prosecuted and incarcerated, he can just move on to the next victim.  </p>
<p>I guess what I am thinking is like in the case of a burglar. How many burglars only rob one apartment? If someone is disposed to rape, he may continue until incarcerated.  It makes me wonder if this is just basic law enforcement.  Unlike a burglar, who if he got a better job, might quit, a rapist may not quit if he has a wife or girlfriend.  The abuse could just change shape.</p>
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