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	Comments on: Pirate Situation Totally Destabilized.	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Monado		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534155</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Monado]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 21:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534155</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Escalation is certainly being discussed but nothing to relieve the situation of those desperate enough to turn to piracy. 

The ones that should be shot are the ones in the Caribbean who rent a boat to tourists and then make them &quot;disappear.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Escalation is certainly being discussed but nothing to relieve the situation of those desperate enough to turn to piracy. </p>
<p>The ones that should be shot are the ones in the Caribbean who rent a boat to tourists and then make them &#8220;disappear.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Art:  I totally agree that the appropriate thing to do is to blast the damn pirates out of the water.  But, the law seems to not allow that, apparently owing to earlier ambiguity in the very definition of a &quot;pirate&quot; during the times that these laws were established.



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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art:  I totally agree that the appropriate thing to do is to blast the damn pirates out of the water.  But, the law seems to not allow that, apparently owing to earlier ambiguity in the very definition of a &#8220;pirate&#8221; during the times that these laws were established.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Art		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534153</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Art]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534153</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mike - ... &quot;try to keep them from boarding by any non-fatal means.&quot;

At sea, miles off shore, the difference between such &quot;non-fatal means&quot; and openly lethal means are not very clear-cut. According to some sources quite a few of the pirates can&#039;t swim and those that can aren&#039;t up to holding out very long, much less actually swimming to shore. 

Using fire hoses or accelerating and using the ships wake to capsize the small boats can lead to some or all of the occupants drowning. 

That said I should say them drowning doesn&#039;t bother me. Simply shooting them wouldn&#039;t bother me much either. Pirates violate the written, and unwritten, law that says outside of an actual shooting war, that sailors look after and actively seek to rescue and protect other sailors. 

Pirates operate outside that understanding and deserve all the pain and death that can be heaped upon them. They cannot take up arms against their fellow sailors as part of a commercial enterprise one moment and then turn around an expect consideration as innocent travelers on the waters the next. 

Live by the sword, die by the sword. With the sharks taking up any slack in the middle. 

IMO a simple seven or eight man fire team on each vessel using small arms and grenades could eliminate any risk of piracy. Commercial vessels are virtually steel castles, and good firing platforms, compared to the small launches the pirates are on. A single machine gun could hold off multiple boats indefinitely. Equip the each team with 2- medium machine guns, 6- rifles, 4- pistols, a dozen grenades, suitable binoculars and communications. Six watches in 24 hours with two men per watch and two in command. Standard four hours on, eight off. 

For less than what they pay in one ransom they could run many teams for a long time. When the effective herd immunity reaches a critical point, perhaps 70 to 80%, piracy stops being a paying proposition. 

I suspect that what he shipping companies are paying in increased insurance premiums would cover a team on every ship. Most commercial carriers have suitable passenger accommodations already and there are a good number of soldiers who would do the job cheap given that it is decent accommodations, free transport and a chance to catch up on their reading and work on their tans. The opportunity to thump a few pirates would be all gravy for a lot of those guys.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike &#8211; &#8230; &#8220;try to keep them from boarding by any non-fatal means.&#8221;</p>
<p>At sea, miles off shore, the difference between such &#8220;non-fatal means&#8221; and openly lethal means are not very clear-cut. According to some sources quite a few of the pirates can&#8217;t swim and those that can aren&#8217;t up to holding out very long, much less actually swimming to shore. </p>
<p>Using fire hoses or accelerating and using the ships wake to capsize the small boats can lead to some or all of the occupants drowning. </p>
<p>That said I should say them drowning doesn&#8217;t bother me. Simply shooting them wouldn&#8217;t bother me much either. Pirates violate the written, and unwritten, law that says outside of an actual shooting war, that sailors look after and actively seek to rescue and protect other sailors. </p>
<p>Pirates operate outside that understanding and deserve all the pain and death that can be heaped upon them. They cannot take up arms against their fellow sailors as part of a commercial enterprise one moment and then turn around an expect consideration as innocent travelers on the waters the next. </p>
<p>Live by the sword, die by the sword. With the sharks taking up any slack in the middle. </p>
<p>IMO a simple seven or eight man fire team on each vessel using small arms and grenades could eliminate any risk of piracy. Commercial vessels are virtually steel castles, and good firing platforms, compared to the small launches the pirates are on. A single machine gun could hold off multiple boats indefinitely. Equip the each team with 2- medium machine guns, 6- rifles, 4- pistols, a dozen grenades, suitable binoculars and communications. Six watches in 24 hours with two men per watch and two in command. Standard four hours on, eight off. </p>
<p>For less than what they pay in one ransom they could run many teams for a long time. When the effective herd immunity reaches a critical point, perhaps 70 to 80%, piracy stops being a paying proposition. </p>
<p>I suspect that what he shipping companies are paying in increased insurance premiums would cover a team on every ship. Most commercial carriers have suitable passenger accommodations already and there are a good number of soldiers who would do the job cheap given that it is decent accommodations, free transport and a chance to catch up on their reading and work on their tans. The opportunity to thump a few pirates would be all gravy for a lot of those guys.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: jj		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534152</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534152</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;I know the US navy would probably just have sent them of to rot in one of your secret prisons, or let them be killed, but alas, some nations are bound by the rule of law.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, they are going to try the one remaining pirate who survived this ordeal - Either in the US, in DC or New York, or in Kenya, as Kenya has been designated the state to prosecute pirates and have done so in the past. 

From http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30190113/ : 

&lt;Blockquote&gt;Washington federal courts normally handle cases involving crimes committed against U.S. citizens abroad. But the FBI office in New York takes the lead when crimes are committed against U.S. citizens in Africa.
Both piracy and hostage-taking carry life sentences under U.S. law and this is shaping up as the first U.S. piracy case in recent memory.
A top U.S. Navy commander says prosecutors are also considering taking the pirate to Kenya, where there&#039;s an agreement to try captured pirates &lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I know the US navy would probably just have sent them of to rot in one of your secret prisons, or let them be killed, but alas, some nations are bound by the rule of law.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, they are going to try the one remaining pirate who survived this ordeal &#8211; Either in the US, in DC or New York, or in Kenya, as Kenya has been designated the state to prosecute pirates and have done so in the past. </p>
<p>From <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30190113/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30190113/</a> : </p>
<blockquote><p>Washington federal courts normally handle cases involving crimes committed against U.S. citizens abroad. But the FBI office in New York takes the lead when crimes are committed against U.S. citizens in Africa.<br />
Both piracy and hostage-taking carry life sentences under U.S. law and this is shaping up as the first U.S. piracy case in recent memory.<br />
A top U.S. Navy commander says prosecutors are also considering taking the pirate to Kenya, where there&#8217;s an agreement to try captured pirates </p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Troublesome Frog		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534151</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Troublesome Frog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534151</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems to me that if you&#039;re in the business of kidnap &amp; ransom, it&#039;s not wise to outright announce that you plan to kill American and French victims outright.   At least, not unless you assume that fire hoses and noise makers are as viciously as your victims are able to fight back, even when their lives are on the line.

When things start escalating, it&#039;s wise to ask who has more room for escalation.  I think that certain players have been getting the wrong impression with the &quot;AK-47s for us and firehoses for them&quot; tradition.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that if you&#8217;re in the business of kidnap &#038; ransom, it&#8217;s not wise to outright announce that you plan to kill American and French victims outright.   At least, not unless you assume that fire hoses and noise makers are as viciously as your victims are able to fight back, even when their lives are on the line.</p>
<p>When things start escalating, it&#8217;s wise to ask who has more room for escalation.  I think that certain players have been getting the wrong impression with the &#8220;AK-47s for us and firehoses for them&#8221; tradition.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Soren		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534150</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Soren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534150</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The presence of navy ships is not new.

The Danish navy has had a presence for some time, and they have arrested multiple pirate crews. The problem has been where and how to prosecute them. One batch of pirates were released,because the legal situation was such that they could not be tried in Denmark, and releasing them to the authorities would be a death sentence, which off course was not an option.

I know the US navy would probably just have sent them of to rot in one of your secret prisons, or let them be killed, but alas, some nations are bound by the rule of law.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The presence of navy ships is not new.</p>
<p>The Danish navy has had a presence for some time, and they have arrested multiple pirate crews. The problem has been where and how to prosecute them. One batch of pirates were released,because the legal situation was such that they could not be tried in Denmark, and releasing them to the authorities would be a death sentence, which off course was not an option.</p>
<p>I know the US navy would probably just have sent them of to rot in one of your secret prisons, or let them be killed, but alas, some nations are bound by the rule of law.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Rowan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534149</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rowan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534149</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Link to piracy map &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&amp;view=visualization&amp;controller=visualization.googlemap&amp;Itemid=219&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here&lt;/a&gt;

I apologise. I forgot this posting software requires use of &quot;s in order to write the code.

There has also been humanitarian aid rendered in the area.  

&lt;blockquote&gt;On April 6, the HMCS Winnipeg brought food and water to a 25-foot boat with 51 Somali refugees, including women and children, en route to Yemen.

â??We made sure the boat was seaworthy, that they all wanted to be there, that it wasnâ??t a human-smuggling situation, and let the Yemen Coast Guard know they were coming,â? Baines said, adding the shipâ??s crew has a good relationship with the Yemeni patrols.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Link to piracy map <a href="http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&#038;view=visualization&#038;controller=visualization.googlemap&#038;Itemid=219" rel="nofollow"> here</a></p>
<p>I apologise. I forgot this posting software requires use of &#8220;s in order to write the code.</p>
<p>There has also been humanitarian aid rendered in the area.  </p>
<blockquote><p>On April 6, the HMCS Winnipeg brought food and water to a 25-foot boat with 51 Somali refugees, including women and children, en route to Yemen.</p>
<p>â??We made sure the boat was seaworthy, that they all wanted to be there, that it wasnâ??t a human-smuggling situation, and let the Yemen Coast Guard know they were coming,â? Baines said, adding the shipâ??s crew has a good relationship with the Yemeni patrols.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>
		By: Rowan		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534148</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rowan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 12:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534148</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[There is quite a bit of escalation occurring.  Here is a link to the International Chamber of Commerce &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&amp;view=visualization&amp;controller=visualization.googlemap&amp;Itemid=219&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Live Piracy Map&lt;/a&gt;  There are also links on that page to prior years&#039; incident.  You can see the increase in attempts and successes of the pirates. There is a link to daily reports of outcomes or you can click on specific map pins to see the results.

Do not forget in addition to the French (three recent missions in response to held ships), the Indian Navy and its response to the pirates in December 2008 where they captured 23 pirates.  There is a lot of activity going on with the international task force that isn&#039;t necessarily reported in the mainstream media. 
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is quite a bit of escalation occurring.  Here is a link to the International Chamber of Commerce <a href="http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&#038;view=visualization&#038;controller=visualization.googlemap&#038;Itemid=219" rel="nofollow">Live Piracy Map</a>  There are also links on that page to prior years&#8217; incident.  You can see the increase in attempts and successes of the pirates. There is a link to daily reports of outcomes or you can click on specific map pins to see the results.</p>
<p>Do not forget in addition to the French (three recent missions in response to held ships), the Indian Navy and its response to the pirates in December 2008 where they captured 23 pirates.  There is a lot of activity going on with the international task force that isn&#8217;t necessarily reported in the mainstream media. </p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian X		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534147</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian X]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 11:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534147</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jib:

I&#039;m not trying to be jingoistic, and truth be told I really hadn&#039;t thought much about other countries&#039; possible response. But it still seems foolish of the Somali pirates to go after people they know will fight back.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jib:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not trying to be jingoistic, and truth be told I really hadn&#8217;t thought much about other countries&#8217; possible response. But it still seems foolish of the Somali pirates to go after people they know will fight back.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Virgil Samms		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534146</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Virgil Samms]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 10:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/04/12/pirate-situation-totally-desta/#comment-534146</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Ship sails by, pirates attack and attempt to board only to find out that the cargo includes a platoon of marines.&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Trojan tankers.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
<i>Ship sails by, pirates attack and attempt to board only to find out that the cargo includes a platoon of marines.</i>
</p></blockquote>
<p>Trojan tankers.</p>
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