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	Comments on: From Graduate School to Prison: What is the rational argument for ELF or ALF?	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533334</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533334</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Robert:  I think we do grant plants rights.  Have you ever seen somone rescue a plant from someone else who was not taking good care of it? 

Mmm... yeah, it is lunch time, isn&#039;t it.....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert:  I think we do grant plants rights.  Have you ever seen somone rescue a plant from someone else who was not taking good care of it? </p>
<p>Mmm&#8230; yeah, it is lunch time, isn&#8217;t it&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Robert Estrada		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533333</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Estrada]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533333</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I have not seen it asked here and so will ask.  Why are plants not granted rights? Ethical treatment?  Fine, but I need to eat something.
Robert]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not seen it asked here and so will ask.  Why are plants not granted rights? Ethical treatment?  Fine, but I need to eat something.<br />
Robert</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jason Thibeault		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533332</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jason Thibeault]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533332</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Address the cause, not the effect.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
We are.  The cause is ignorance.  Ignorance of what actually happens in animal testing, ignorance of the morals, of the motivations, and of the overall good that can be done.  Ignorance of the fact that &quot;morals&quot; imply doing what&#039;s best for the world in general, including humane testing on animals.

The effect, however, is people becoming grossly misguided, having their empathy circuits short-circuited, overwhelming them with images of animals being hurt to the point where they end up hurting people in retribution for crimes that aren&#039;t actually happening.

What&#039;s happening here is that you&#039;re being lied to.  Just like anti-abortionists that frequently show pictures of dead nearly-full-term fetuses, you are shown the very very worst, most deplorable, and most regrettable actions of yesteryear as though they are the norm and are happening every single time a test is performed.  The science-class are combatting this effect by providing the information, hoping to address the cause -- ignorance -- rather than the effect -- murders and bombings.

So, again -- we are addressing the cause.  You just can&#039;t see it because you&#039;re part of the effect.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Address the cause, not the effect.</p></blockquote>
<p>We are.  The cause is ignorance.  Ignorance of what actually happens in animal testing, ignorance of the morals, of the motivations, and of the overall good that can be done.  Ignorance of the fact that &#8220;morals&#8221; imply doing what&#8217;s best for the world in general, including humane testing on animals.</p>
<p>The effect, however, is people becoming grossly misguided, having their empathy circuits short-circuited, overwhelming them with images of animals being hurt to the point where they end up hurting people in retribution for crimes that aren&#8217;t actually happening.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s happening here is that you&#8217;re being lied to.  Just like anti-abortionists that frequently show pictures of dead nearly-full-term fetuses, you are shown the very very worst, most deplorable, and most regrettable actions of yesteryear as though they are the norm and are happening every single time a test is performed.  The science-class are combatting this effect by providing the information, hoping to address the cause &#8212; ignorance &#8212; rather than the effect &#8212; murders and bombings.</p>
<p>So, again &#8212; we are addressing the cause.  You just can&#8217;t see it because you&#8217;re part of the effect.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533331</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533331</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Silence:  &quot;Brace yourselves&quot; is not acceptable language here, in the context in which you use it.  Apologize for the threat, please.

Since you are in Aukland New Zealand, I&#039;m not that worried, but still.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Silence:  &#8220;Brace yourselves&#8221; is not acceptable language here, in the context in which you use it.  Apologize for the threat, please.</p>
<p>Since you are in Aukland New Zealand, I&#8217;m not that worried, but still.  </p>
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		<title>
		By: silenceIsGolden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533330</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[silenceIsGolden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533330</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[He did it not for himself, but for the hundreds-thousands of innocent animals you perverts mutilate and torture all the time.

Thats why.

Until these unjust acts against the voiceless are stopped, brace yourselves.

Address the cause, not the effect.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He did it not for himself, but for the hundreds-thousands of innocent animals you perverts mutilate and torture all the time.</p>
<p>Thats why.</p>
<p>Until these unjust acts against the voiceless are stopped, brace yourselves.</p>
<p>Address the cause, not the effect.</p>
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		<title>
		By: drew c.		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533329</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[drew c.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 18:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533329</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Greg Laden-

This is a very nice piece you&#039;ve written.  John is my best friend of over 20 years.  I remember him mentioning you many times over the years. He had a lot of respect for you and felt like you were a big influence on his life.  I want to thank you for your kind words about him and his family.

This has been a difficult thing for many of us to understand. It may be a surprise, but virtually none of his close friends knew about the activities John was taking part in.  Its hard to say whether I would have been supportive or not. I like to think I would have stopped him, but since John was, and still is a huge inspiration for me as an individual, I have to admit that he most likely would have won over my support.  After all, I was an anarchist at heart.

I feel like mentioning that a few of the others involved in these actions (at least those I know personally), are in a similar situation if not identical.  These are absolutely reformed people who are only doing wonderful things for their communities.  No one is talking about them, but thats okay. I just feeling like stating my love and support for their futures as well. I will always be there for John. While he&#039;s in prison and for the rest of his life.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Greg Laden-</p>
<p>This is a very nice piece you&#8217;ve written.  John is my best friend of over 20 years.  I remember him mentioning you many times over the years. He had a lot of respect for you and felt like you were a big influence on his life.  I want to thank you for your kind words about him and his family.</p>
<p>This has been a difficult thing for many of us to understand. It may be a surprise, but virtually none of his close friends knew about the activities John was taking part in.  Its hard to say whether I would have been supportive or not. I like to think I would have stopped him, but since John was, and still is a huge inspiration for me as an individual, I have to admit that he most likely would have won over my support.  After all, I was an anarchist at heart.</p>
<p>I feel like mentioning that a few of the others involved in these actions (at least those I know personally), are in a similar situation if not identical.  These are absolutely reformed people who are only doing wonderful things for their communities.  No one is talking about them, but thats okay. I just feeling like stating my love and support for their futures as well. I will always be there for John. While he&#8217;s in prison and for the rest of his life.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Blue Fielder		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533328</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Blue Fielder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 05:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533328</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jerry, let me start by saying that I don&#039;t like you, and I don&#039;t believe you worthy of my time.  But I feel this needs to be said, and if it nets me a prime spot in this site&#039;s banlist, so be it.

I believe that people like you are the lowest form of humanity: traitors to the human race.  You babble on about oppression and whatnot, not realizing that you are an oppressor, you are a violent force.  I can only hope that you will be found by authorities with all speed, tried, convicted, and sent away.

You don&#039;t know oppression, you pathetic, selfish, privileged little boy.  And until you are given what you deserve, you never will.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry, let me start by saying that I don&#8217;t like you, and I don&#8217;t believe you worthy of my time.  But I feel this needs to be said, and if it nets me a prime spot in this site&#8217;s banlist, so be it.</p>
<p>I believe that people like you are the lowest form of humanity: traitors to the human race.  You babble on about oppression and whatnot, not realizing that you are an oppressor, you are a violent force.  I can only hope that you will be found by authorities with all speed, tried, convicted, and sent away.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t know oppression, you pathetic, selfish, privileged little boy.  And until you are given what you deserve, you never will.</p>
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		<title>
		By: The FBI		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533327</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The FBI]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 19:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533327</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;In other words, I don&#039;t know anything you don&#039;t know, if you are the FBI and you are reading this blog post. &lt;/em&gt;

Do you think this is going to keep us from bugging you? ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>In other words, I don&#8217;t know anything you don&#8217;t know, if you are the FBI and you are reading this blog post. </em></p>
<p>Do you think this is going to keep us from bugging you? </p>
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		<title>
		By: Cosmo T		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533326</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cosmo T]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 01:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533326</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Fair is not always easy or the most obvious]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair is not always easy or the most obvious</p>
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		<title>
		By: badger		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533325</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[badger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/03/27/from-graduate-school-to-prison/#comment-533325</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Amazing story. ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing story. </p>
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