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	Comments on: How diverse were early hominoids?	</title>
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	<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/</link>
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		<title>
		By: AK		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530932</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 17:11:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530932</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The question becomes, then, how much Pliocene (and early Pleistocene) land that was rough, surface-drained open woodland was later covered up by Kalahari sands and converted into savannas where most of the rainfall soaks down to below the deepest roots and drains horizontally into deep-cut rivers?

This could be important, because in addition to actual climate differences, differences in soil type and water retention could have made for a much friendlier environment for apes.  Rough land with a mixture of open woodland and brush could have created a sort of giant &quot;jungle Jim&quot; combining vertical aspects of the land, downwood, and trees, with brush and grass in a very tight mosaic.

Movement through such landscape would have combined some brachiation with scrambling and some running and vertical climbing.  Often there would be handholds at waist level or so, allowing a four-handed movement with a vertical body and short arms.

Such a landscape might have been ideal for an Australopithecene.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question becomes, then, how much Pliocene (and early Pleistocene) land that was rough, surface-drained open woodland was later covered up by Kalahari sands and converted into savannas where most of the rainfall soaks down to below the deepest roots and drains horizontally into deep-cut rivers?</p>
<p>This could be important, because in addition to actual climate differences, differences in soil type and water retention could have made for a much friendlier environment for apes.  Rough land with a mixture of open woodland and brush could have created a sort of giant &#8220;jungle Jim&#8221; combining vertical aspects of the land, downwood, and trees, with brush and grass in a very tight mosaic.</p>
<p>Movement through such landscape would have combined some brachiation with scrambling and some running and vertical climbing.  Often there would be handholds at waist level or so, allowing a four-handed movement with a vertical body and short arms.</p>
<p>Such a landscape might have been ideal for an Australopithecene.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530931</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530931</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The process is definitely older than these references are suggesting, and it is very much ongoing now, across about the southern 20 percent of the sand field (but not the very very southern extent).  

]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The process is definitely older than these references are suggesting, and it is very much ongoing now, across about the southern 20 percent of the sand field (but not the very very southern extent).  </p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: AK		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530930</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 16:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530930</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I actually found some scholarly references for my previous point:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jstor.org/pss/3060512&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Geomorphological Evidence and Pleistocene Refugia in Africa
&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.springerlink.com/content/n3p47m11h28861q2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Ecology and dynamics of the woody vegetation on the Kalahari Sands in Hwange National Park, Zimbabwe&lt;/a&gt;

Both are actually on other topics, but the abstracts (I can&#039;t get to the actual articles) contain references to large areas being covered by windblown sand in the form of linear desert dunes.

From the latter reference:

&quot;&lt;i&gt;The Kalahari sand dune systems of central and southern Africa are built up from the surface sediments of the Kalahari Beds, extensive continental deposits which accumulated in a great internal basin (De Swart &amp; Bennett 1974).  The dunes are thought to have been formed during the last glacial maximum, 18000-13000 B.P. (Heine 1982), under the influence of easterly winds (Lancaster 1979), during a period of less than 150 mm rainfall (the maximum threshold for sand movement) and inn a vegetation-free environment. [...] In Zimbabwe they cover the southwest part of the country with the ridges being most prominent in the far south-west (Thomas 1984).&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

I would assume that similar processes took place during earlier glacial maxima, starting in the early pleistocene.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually found some scholarly references for my previous point:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.jstor.org/pss/3060512" rel="nofollow">Geomorphological Evidence and Pleistocene Refugia in Africa<br />
</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.springerlink.com/content/n3p47m11h28861q2/" rel="nofollow"> Ecology and dynamics of the woody vegetation on the Kalahari Sands in Hwange National Park, Zimbabwe</a></p>
<p>Both are actually on other topics, but the abstracts (I can&#8217;t get to the actual articles) contain references to large areas being covered by windblown sand in the form of linear desert dunes.</p>
<p>From the latter reference:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i>The Kalahari sand dune systems of central and southern Africa are built up from the surface sediments of the Kalahari Beds, extensive continental deposits which accumulated in a great internal basin (De Swart &#038; Bennett 1974).  The dunes are thought to have been formed during the last glacial maximum, 18000-13000 B.P. (Heine 1982), under the influence of easterly winds (Lancaster 1979), during a period of less than 150 mm rainfall (the maximum threshold for sand movement) and inn a vegetation-free environment. [&#8230;] In Zimbabwe they cover the southwest part of the country with the ridges being most prominent in the far south-west (Thomas 1984).</i>&#8221;</p>
<p>I would assume that similar processes took place during earlier glacial maxima, starting in the early pleistocene.</p>
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		<title>
		By: AK		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530929</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530929</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks.

I&#039;d gotten the impression that a large amount of windborn sand was deposited over previous hilly landscape sometime around either the Pliocene/pleistocene boundary or a little later, with much of the modern brushland on top of it.  My sources are all non-scholarly, however, which is why I&#039;m a little tentative about it.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d gotten the impression that a large amount of windborn sand was deposited over previous hilly landscape sometime around either the Pliocene/pleistocene boundary or a little later, with much of the modern brushland on top of it.  My sources are all non-scholarly, however, which is why I&#8217;m a little tentative about it.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530928</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530928</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Good question.  I&#039;ll give you a very rough overview.  The entire continent of Africa is divisible into major basins, and all of them have been interior drainages at one point or another in time with major influx of sediment.  The sand is everywhere, with the Kalahari deposit (which is many different deposits) being the largest ever, anywhere.  There were probably inland seas assocaited with each basin, all of which are now opened, with the one associated with the Kalahari mainly drained by the Limpopo and Orange/Gariep Rivers in the southern part.  

I think the time scale for this major basin having been closed way predates the period I&#039;m talking about here, but yes, during somewhat wetter times there may have been ape-friendly (counting the presumed woodland apes like hominid) habitats from somewhere south of the equator all the way to the southern coast.  

Apes everywhere, under certain conditions.  ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question.  I&#8217;ll give you a very rough overview.  The entire continent of Africa is divisible into major basins, and all of them have been interior drainages at one point or another in time with major influx of sediment.  The sand is everywhere, with the Kalahari deposit (which is many different deposits) being the largest ever, anywhere.  There were probably inland seas assocaited with each basin, all of which are now opened, with the one associated with the Kalahari mainly drained by the Limpopo and Orange/Gariep Rivers in the southern part.  </p>
<p>I think the time scale for this major basin having been closed way predates the period I&#8217;m talking about here, but yes, during somewhat wetter times there may have been ape-friendly (counting the presumed woodland apes like hominid) habitats from somewhere south of the equator all the way to the southern coast.  </p>
<p>Apes everywhere, under certain conditions.  </p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: AK		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530927</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530927</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s my understanding that large areas of sub-equatorial Africa were covered up by Kalahari Sands sometime before the late Pleistocene.  (I couldn&#039;t find any links in a quick search.)  AFAIK much of the covered landscape had a great deal of relief, and was drained by surface water (streams, etc.) rather than the current case where most rainfall sinks into hundreds of meters of sand and is drained by a few deeply cut rivers.

If this landscape contained mostly open woodland it could have contained a large diversity of apes including Australopithicenes.  Most of the fossils would have been buried.

Given an inability to find good references to African landscapes and their history, I have no way to guess how plausible this is.  Can you comment?

I also wonder whether a similar situation might exist in the Sahel (with Sahara sands rather than Kalahari).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s my understanding that large areas of sub-equatorial Africa were covered up by Kalahari Sands sometime before the late Pleistocene.  (I couldn&#8217;t find any links in a quick search.)  AFAIK much of the covered landscape had a great deal of relief, and was drained by surface water (streams, etc.) rather than the current case where most rainfall sinks into hundreds of meters of sand and is drained by a few deeply cut rivers.</p>
<p>If this landscape contained mostly open woodland it could have contained a large diversity of apes including Australopithicenes.  Most of the fossils would have been buried.</p>
<p>Given an inability to find good references to African landscapes and their history, I have no way to guess how plausible this is.  Can you comment?</p>
<p>I also wonder whether a similar situation might exist in the Sahel (with Sahara sands rather than Kalahari).</p>
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		<title>
		By: Greg Laden		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530926</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg Laden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530926</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Do it quick!  I can use the feedback before tonight&#039;s talk when I say this stuff out loud!!!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do it quick!  I can use the feedback before tonight&#8217;s talk when I say this stuff out loud!!!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Anne Gilbert		</title>
		<link>https://gregladen.com/blog/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530925</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anne Gilbert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/02/12/how-diverse-were-early-hominoi/#comment-530925</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This is really very interesting stuff.  I&#039;d like to pass it on to the primatologists of my acquaintance.
Anne G]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really very interesting stuff.  I&#8217;d like to pass it on to the primatologists of my acquaintance.<br />
Anne G</p>
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